Origination
Join us as we delve into the world of multifamily and commercial real estate, engaging in insightful interviews with industry-leading loan originators and salespeople. Discover the secrets that set apart these top performers from the competition as we uncover the strategies and skills that drive their success.
Origination
Episode 19: Ira Zlotowitz, Founder of Eastern Union and Introducing Gparency! Reinventing the Brokerage Industry, the Importance of Trust, Thinking 10 Years Down the Road , and Much More!
Timestamps:
1:42- 3:35 - Happiness in the Business World
4:03 - 5:53 - First Sales Experience
6:23 - 13:28 - The Influence of a Father
14:01 - 21:48 - Day One in Brokerage World and Early Business Influences
22:29 - 57:48 - New Business Venture
lenders, market, people, loan, client, equity, selling, deals, screen protectors, year, calls, rates, business, borrower, easy, long, sales, chase, interest rates, debt
Hey everyone, it's Mordecai. And welcome back to the Origination Podcast, where we interview the top salespeople and originators in the multifamily industry to try and understand what separates the top performers from the rest of the pack. On this episode, I speak with Ira Zlotowitz. Ira is the founder of Eastern Union, but also recently founded a new company called Gparency, which is really going to reinvent how the brokerage business is done. One of the really interesting things to me about Ira is that, you know, our industry, the multifamily industry and finance in particular, we are very reluctant to make change. We are slow to adopt technologies. We believe that the legacy way of doing business is the only way to do business. But Ira has repeatedly tried to reinvent his business many times at Eastern and now with the latest round of Gparency. I'm really excited for this conversation, I think you'll get a lot out of it. So without further ado, let's talk to Ira. Ira Zlotowitz, welcome to the origination podcast. It's a delight to have you here.
Ira Zlotowitz:Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Sure. And I was thinking, I don't know if anyone's ever called you the Jeff Bezos of the brokerage world. Yeah, but I think that might be an appropriate title.
Ira Zlotowitz:I appreciate that. I'm humbled by that comparison. So hopefully I live up to what he was able to accomplish with Amazon.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, well, we'll get there. We'll get there.
Ira Zlotowitz:I plan to stay happily married for the rest of my life.
Mordecai Rosenberg:I know. I know. I do think about that, that people are always pursuing, you know, wealth, and success.
Ira Zlotowitz:Right.
Mordecai Rosenberg:But when you think about, like, who are that the happiest people that you know? Right? A couple of people that don't come to mind are Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg. Yeah, there, Steve Jobs, right. These are people who came across as very happy. So I feel like you have to know what you're actually after.
Ira Zlotowitz:Right? That's why, you know, when I hire brokers, previously at Eastern, and obviously be buying into the dream, like, not everybody makes it but those who make are making millions. And I used to ass the first question, why do you want to make millions if the time comes? What do you want to do with it? And I realized that some people don't, you know, if they don't have a plan, they're not the same drive somebody want to be number one. And that's the people become miserable. Because, you know, I have a client of mine who, owns boats, and they kept getting a larger, larger boat at one point had the largest boat in New Jersey. And he one day he called me and said, I sold it, I said, what happened? He said, because it's in Florida pulled up this big ship came, and it lowered a boat that was larger than my boat, and I realized there's no end. Once there is no end I gotta get off that train, so to speak.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Right. That's right.
Ira Zlotowitz:The goal is, you know, we were brought up to say be happy with your lots. And, you know, and, you know, I tell people tithe to charity. But, yo know, I opened up this busi ess and gave hundreds of thou ands of shares to charity, a d hopefully I don't get te pted to give less as it be omes successful.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, that's great. So we'll get into Gparency and some exciting announcements that you recently came out with, but I want to start by turning back the clock Ira. And if you you were to think back to your earliest sales experience, and that could be in grade school, it could be in high school or college. What was the earliest time you ever set selling something?
Ira Zlotowitz:So the earliest time that I sold, I used to do when I was a kid like fourth grade fifth grade already I used to run carnivals, you know, give the the profits to charity. But the first business I actually did, was that my father was never big fan, that I should do business in school, you go to school, Yeshiva learn, don't do anything else. So I had a friend of mine, whose father was very wealthy. And I was able to sell donuts in the morning. And I said let me you know, we bought a dozen and sold it. And that is one thing I could buy, and I could probably get rid of them on a certain day here and there and at Hannukah time and probably get rid of a dozen donuts, but I don't have a cash flow. So to bankroll I met with his friend of mine, and I said do you want to ask your father to give us $100, or to buy the doughnuts, we sell out that day, and then we'll split the profits. So that was like the first like business deal ever remember making and sure enough, we sold out. I think that gave him his half, I think I ate, at that point, I was very heavy as a kid, I ate, I think ate the profits, that day. But a dozen donuts, didn't get in trouble, sold it out by the time class started the first break. And that was like the first business deal I did.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, so that's very interesting. Because, you know, lots of times, I feel like a kid if they're trying to sell something, they'll start with what they can access. Right? So they'll say, you know, my daughter will make bracelets, you know, with beads and then sell those. Right. But you had a bigger picture, right? So even as an adult, how old were you at that time?
Ira Zlotowitz:I was probably 11 or 12. I had to take them on a city bus. And you know, with the whole boxes dozen donuts it was like a whole different deal.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Right. So even at that point, you realize that there could be, first of all, you're thinking about scalability in some ways, right? Because you could sell six doughnuts, but why not sell 60 on Hanukkah, right? And that had to put that deal together, right? So you needed capital, right to raise. You needed to figure out the logistics, how to do it, you know, and how to be introduced to the capital. So it's interesting, like, that's not a normal thought for someone at that, you know, such a young age.
Ira Zlotowitz:I guess it is a God given thought that motivates and drives different people. And I had my dad as a role model, and always would tell us to focus on the long term vision. Don't just focus on it today. So that probably, that's how he's always brought up focusing on a longer term decision, not just right now.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. And it's interesting, because your father, obviously is also a legend in, you know, the Jewish world, you know, for starting, you know, ArtScroll, which is probably the largest publishing outlet, right. And I don't know that people think about publishing as an entrepreneurial venture, but, it really was, out of curiosity, what was his vision? When he started that?
Ira Zlotowitz:So it wasn't all vision. My father is an artist by trade, he was, he passed away a few years ago. He's an artist by trade. Actually, he was like, when he went to summer camp. And they have colorwork teams, it was basically him, because every other artists in camp wasn't his level of talent they had, so marriage certificates to Ketubah there called, he would actually handwrite them that was his thing. And he actually like was proud of the fact that to his knowledge, none of the people who wrote it for ended didn't divorce so like there's a big like, you know, a big thing is to talk about, but he opened up a printing company, high end printing company, it's really
Mordecai Rosenberg:Hmm. That's, that's very interesting. So the Artscrolls from his Artsc olls printing based in New York City is Ponor originally mea t to sell to David and E liot Schwartz, Elliot Schwartz till runs it today. It's a hig end invitations and do the you know, now, people don't r ally have monograms and stati nery and letterhead at the same level. But like, Readers Di est, just for like one accou t at that time, American Exp ess, like some large accounts. A d he was, he was in his 30s, nd a friend of his just died. B fore the Purim, and he said i his memory, let me like tran late into what we call m dern English. Let me translate into simple English, the Mcgilli, so people can understand it, that it wasn't like everythin was Macbeth type English, in very translation. And it just printed, and it sold out And then they would print mor and then his Rabbi said hey li ten, maybe this is you're cal ing, and he left article prin ing, the publishing company is r ally called the Mesorah publicat ons. And there's another way to keep the tradition. But be ause people knew him his Art crolls, they always start as Ar scroll is the name but re lly, it's Mesorah Public tions and Artscroll is the pr nting company, nothing to do with it. Today, obviously th y're synonymous since bec me the same thing to a large ex ent. And that's where that's rig t. So interesting vision was al ays to build like I remember w en he took on the project to translate the town with ju t underwritten by G shot Mr. Jo nson's father Jerome Johnson hat started is that that w s like a 12 year $36 milli n undertake like the larges project so he everything he bu lt built a last built in the future and but but he didn't op n up Artscroll that vision, he o ened Artscroll, but as it star ed coming together, he took it o that it's, interesting to think about building things to last versus building things to break, which is I feel like a lot you know,
Ira Zlotowitz:You know, when you're using that contrast, I which is a lot of other things that we do, you know, it's that we build it and we know we're gonna want to change it in in one year in five years. Right. But it's, it's it's an interesting contrast. remember he came home with a, an old Hebrew siddur, so it was only until that point to pray up until that point, everything was translating English.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah.
Ira Zlotowitz:And I said, Why are you coming out with all Hebrew? Like, you're not gonna make money. What was your plan? He says it just bothered him that every time it goes to synagogues all over the world, the prayer books fall apart. And they don't last, he wants to come up with a prayer book, there won't be like any double enforced binding and the whole there's no reason to do side binding to whatever that was just like taking product people will be crazy knowns and we buy it from you. It goes, that's the purpose. It's sacred book. It shouldn't fall apart. Like people understand that philosophy or how we build things. But he was building it like a his motto was the written orders forever. That's how he that's was his direction.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah.
Ira Zlotowitz:A lot of us fundamental, you know, his branding. He told me, you know, I can remember used to go through the Wall Street Journal, and show me ads and then ask me what went wrong with the ads. And he's like, showed me like, we'll talk about like, silica, which apparently but he's to show me like, How common is it used to be used to use these palm pilots was the first thing when used that went to BlackBerry phone that BlackBerry dominates. Now you have the iPhone, right? And now people told me the new Tesla phone how's that gonna work? Potentially and I was gonna go, I think it's that was the change has blockbuster had the blockbuster let Netflix in, early on, my dad explained to me what happens and why. And I made a commitment that when the Netflix of the my industry comes into my space, it's gonna be me and not letting someone take me out of my own business. And that stayed with me for always a long term vision, and be able to, you know, be able to, to not just really see around the curve, everybody has to do with the market going to believe rates are going up rates are going down. If you believe rates are going up, what are you doing different because of it? Don't just say it's going up? What are you doing? And if I believe the same thing, I have the conviction and follow up that conviction.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Right? I guess what you might say? Because I feel like, you know, I started out by saying, I call you like the Jeff Bezos of the of the brokerage industry. Yeah. And one thing I've noticed about you, is that really more than anyone else that I know, in the entire industry, you've constantly been willing to break, what you've what you've built to, you try to reinvent the model, you know.
Ira Zlotowitz:I like to use a bit of terminology and break effecting. So it's meaning when I came to a point that I realized the needs no, my partner, Abe Bergman, I opened up Eastern union with.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah.
Ira Zlotowitz:So the following there are two train companies, one was the best way to travel. And one was the best real best training because something along those lines.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah.
Ira Zlotowitz:And the evolution is that when people started to travel other ways, the best way to travel evolved to the brands. My brand has always been the trusted advisor, I want you to think Ira Zlotowitz I wanted you to think of somebody you could trust. And if you could trust me, when the market needed a broker done that way and price that way, I was the best in that business, yet evolved needed the product as the best. And now I'm going to always go with that world is going to take me to because that's the core brand. I'm coming to the table with.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah.
Ira Zlotowitz:So as opposed to I want to be known as a mortgage broker, a trusted advisor in the finance space. On both sides.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. So what I think you might say is that in terms of the built to last versus built to, you know, improve, I think what the built to last is your is first of all your vision, right? And the idea of if you want to be the best trusted advisor, then you need to things need to change. Right, but I think there's certain things that are unchanging, which is your commitment to being the best trusted advisor.
Ira Zlotowitz:Sure.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah.
Ira Zlotowitz:Like I tell people to hire them I said let me say something you know to clients looking for you know, you can have a conference they want people to have we train people they want to get on the phone, make calls, I say, let me tell you what you're selling. He's selling trusted, trusted advisor. They're gonna be someone smarter than you more handsome then you, prettier than you, brighter than you, better salesperson, you know, everybody's better. But if you once you're honest, don't be more honest. It doesn't exist. So if you're an honest person, that's what you need to do. That's the buying and buying if they can trust what you tell them. And if you don't have an answer, just say I do not know. You won't say we won't go and BS them on a story.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. So can you talk about your your entry into the into the brokerage world, your how you got into it, and what was your what was your approach? Right sudden day one, they give you a desk and a phone? Right? And just how you how you approached in those first few months and years.
Ira Zlotowitz:So I'll go even a step before I had a business plan that I wrote in is before the days of Uber and gig economy and technology there is I have a vision and a business that when I was growing up and you remember when a kid because he still lived through film is that the three items that a person uses, drops off at a store, pick up cut, fix and takes back film developing which no more digital space will pick up sometimes it prints out the story one? Yeah, shoe repair, and cleaners. What's interesting about those cleaners is that even though we'll use clean, dry cleaners now for more casual today, but the interesting thing is that every if you took 100 people in your neighborhood, you say, Would you go grocery shopping? Every answer that 70 80%, every answer will be the same thing. We shop at the store, we go comes to the dry cleaner, there's no loyalty, I use the person on the block, and they'll he mess me up. Once I go two blocks away, pick someone convenient design, I wanted to change an industry, I want to revolutionize the industry, and open up a chain of dry cleaners and going fast business. I wanted to start at one summer in the summer camp, pick up laundry and one of the business. My dad said he knows another friend of mine that's in real estate want to go meet this friend of mine? And then I got my first job in the in the mortgage business. And it started like it described, sat down and made cold calls. And the beginning I wasn't so successful. And the president of the company then called me in today, I was not working. So the reason why it's not working and told them is because I bring an opportunity. And I think I could have a good connection with the borrower. And then it comes to the opposite. I don't waste your time. This doesn't make any sense. I said I could No, no, you're new. I know what I'm talking about. Don't waste your time. I said, I can't like at work if you want to excel was explaining the why. Let me be creative problem solver to strengthen it can problem solve, and maybe I could figure something out. So at that point, a close family friend was was working there and later became a part of that firm. I think that's something if you want to come in on Sundays, you want to come in early, I'll answer all the questions. You want to waste your time and things, but at least you'll know the challenges. And that was the turning point to where the career was. And so early on, I saw cold calling worked. I said cold calling works. Why is hiring 1% of time winding up like telemarketing. The world is that was the beginning years I started 1997 I'll just be the beginning. You know, interesting, I'll tell you a thing and just go off and do business. And fascinating piece that I once went to a real estate on our site with about$100 million of real estate that time. And I asked them, this is going back over 2010. I asked him I said do you ever make a mistake like tell me from your mistakes in life because I unfortunately, I guess I never made a mistake. Like come on, because I'm not bragging to you. It bothers me. Because let me tell you a story. When I first came into business, since I was in the stock trading business, it tells me and my brother told me about this thing called the internet. And as high speed trading, we replace a human and one day it's gonna, and we started using it, there's another person who believed tech, it's gonna replace the human totally. And they built the high speed, whatever high speed at that time were the fastest ones. And they built a stock company they bought I mean, they've gone bankrupt. And, and then that person learn from the mistake that will always be a human element. And that person's job business. That's the other than Amazon, he opened up Amazon saying as much as the internet can change the world, we've always seen that human. That's why he's so fixated on the customer experience. So fixed on the human side of it, there's a human component will always exist, because that's the one that part of the business. So is the beginning then is when banks started to get purchased. And you know, a lot of mergers taking place and the Wall Street Market CMBS started coming into play. That's when Fannie Mae start actually lending to 1999 was the first time Fannie Mae did any loans in New York, I developed a marketing plan for them. And when they came into these markets, they said, Listen, we could scale us up by hiring telemarketers. And that was the beginning of bringing telemarkets instead of selling, you know, dollar products or $30 per month, the products, they could sell commercial mortgages, and I perfected weird as the human. Where does the human telemarketer starting in? What is the human mortgage broker starting and where does the human underwriter and once you built that, it's it wasn't assembly one. But once we built that got through the growing pains, you have to go ahead and scale the same thing and build to last. Because if you if you would analyze what are your strengths and weaknesses. The key I tell people is don't work on your weaknesses. Know them, neutralize them partner up to weakness. And most people don't want to do that. The people that are the greatest are teams. And you get one person is amazing at one thing terrible at something else. And that partner is the opposite. They go crazy. So the typical world is at someone who's a great salesperson is typically not good at math, and disorganized. Someone that is a good broker understands the blend at some level and sale but doesn't want to go to details. So you have a caller, we're just gonna open up doors, I train someone to close with Donald Trump, not just the person till today doesn't claim I want to try to say I know real estate. I know what I need to know to get to the next step. They partner up the best broker, and they've been on the road behind the scenes doing all the work.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, it's great. You know, I know you mentioned, I think a LinkedIn post a few months ago, you quoted a book by Dan Sullivan, who not how so I'm in Strategic Coach, which is Dan Sullivan's coaching program. He is very much in alignment with what you said about focusing on your strengths you said, you know, in the problem that starts in our schooling system, right because I have parent teacher conferences the last couple days. And what did the teacher tell you? They don't tell you all the things that your kid is good at. They say, Oh, here's where they're struggling. Right? Here's where they have to work on. So, yeah, and Dan says that if you just work on your weaknesses, then at the end of your life, when you die, you'll just have a lot of strong weaknesses. Yeah, but if you work on your strengths, then you could be the best in the world.
Ira Zlotowitz:But I also want to add dynamic that I've learned over the years, just I hope on your PTA. Like I tell people, my brother says, I hope you had a better report about your kids my father got about me, you know, stuff like that. I think I learned about this, about about, you know, working in weakness and strength. It's not just if you worked on the strength to better that's for sure. But the issue is that when you have to work on things you're not good at you don't want to do you feel like just dreary. So when you're doing something you're good at, you're not doing an optimum, if you slept a good night's sleep, eight hours, whatever it is, and you have a great day. If you have stressed you know you Oh, like if someone says I brought in a sale, oh my gosh, I have to work it, I hate that part. So in I'm going to bring in a sale the same way. But if you had a partner who loved working it now be good at the first part, but you're going to be doing it with such an energy and all those pieces come together. Yes, it's about ego but ego also the key thing is is that are you willing to respect that the person that's running your deal? Like when I open up the business with Abe Bergman and his biggest strength is my biggest weakness we can each do each other's work but he's amazing at what my weaknesses are amazing and his weakness and vice versa and respect that in order for me to grit the to be me I need the me equivalent on the other side. That's what together go with the market that way but a lot of times ego well that person is is my that that that I'll tell the story always at a senior broker who was recruited by different firm like a baseball contract, a$12 million contract to go work for now firm.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Wow.
Ira Zlotowitz:And on his way out. He basically stepped on his underwriter who did all the work. Because it wasn't you was really me, you will nothing you would overprice secretary and whatever. Okay, that was it, I was bothered. Six months later, it comes crawling back, because you realize that you know, something, I'm working this new firm, they're counting me to do certain things, I sold myself as this $12 million baseball player, but you know, something, and you have to go back and recruit that other person to come work with him, and problems and everything in the world to go bring him back onto his team. Because you realize this really person's really in three Inc. I can't really be the me without having this other person. Maybe he's not me, he has issues, but focus on the strengths and on my strength. And together. We can dominate.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, that's a great story. So if you had to think about what you do better than like, what do you see? To me? First of all, I think everyone has a unique ability, right? There's something that everyone who I meet, yeah, there's something that they do really, really well. Right. And certainly in your being successful in the industry, right? There's, there are certain things that you do better than anyone, anyone else. Yeah, they're oftentimes these things, are there problems that you can see the solutions very quickly and easily, you know, where other people are just kind of lost in the, in the, in the weeds? So if you had to, if you had to say, here's what I do, maybe if it's about building businesses, or about how you address customers, you know, what do you think that you see? Or do that, you know, that other people, you know, where other people missed the boat.
Ira Zlotowitz:So I don't know, if somebody just wants that appeal missed the boat, is I really think a lot of times it's the priority away, bring things through, it's about the long term vision. So you know, his famous line is a 10 10 10 rule, right? When you do something, having a feel that in, 10 seconds, 10 minutes, 10 hours, 10 days, 10 weeks, 10 months, 10 years, I try to make decisions, as far out to that 10 year mark as I possibly can. And so I find so many people, my motto in life is live for today, without sacrificing tomorrow. And many people just lifted today period to make decisions that make sense today, and they can totally risk if it doesn't work out. It's like a lot of times someone comes to me for a job and asked what are you doing now? And we have I want to come to the mortgage business cuz I saw these people making millions. I said, statistically, if you don't want to do can you get your same job back. So when I meet someone who's earning irrelevant, they're earning 50,000 100 150 to 250. If I asked if you've lost your job, how quickly you get another job back, if they're answer was in a heartbeat, and at least they're not risking tomorrow. If this works great. And if it doesn't go back to the job, there are people willing to risk real things. So number one is just how you think people long term and make that decision on a long term basis live for today not sacrificing tomorrow. And from my end of it, you know, we'll talk about the trustworthiness and keeping it Your reputation is like being brought up as a kid. They said the only thing you have is your name. There's nothing else you have you have to take that with a long term vision both goes together. Truth is always say that many times this is a sentiment really just coming off of the lawn. So it's a sentiment that's like sharing it to an extent is that you know, they always say is that my father used to say this thing every year it says Have a happy sweet year that's the blessing for Shana Tova why sweet? So the thing goes, everyone knows Okay, here's everyone else as an Orthodox Jew is brought up believing God God does everything is for your good, but sometimes its not sweet. Someone is sick thing just surgery to get better. Is it for the good the surgery? Yes, they get better, but not sweet. Have a sweet year that everything good for you should actually be sweet. I look back over the years that's a tough decision to make core value most trusted advisor and I was fine realize that someone in my office, we were nervous, wasn't being honest on the numbers, how they're sending deals to the bank. We weren't even sure we approached that broker and the broker told me along like Ira are you making money, be quiet. I mean, different terminology but that was the gist of it. I'm not selling it for money. I drive is not money. So we that night I turned him off. I was nuts like this other words, what do you care you making money the other way? And overtime I lost deals because of being honest. But doing certain things in the industry and other bad, dishonest sometimes, like go the opposite way. I'm aware that what they do patency right. GP is an owner and transparency. Like, be full transparent. Don't be in a situation where I was anything wrong with this a little bit. But if the client knew we'd be upset, I'm telling the client upfront that's problem. That's what I was brought up. Do you not cheat because you're not getting allistic students, you're not choosing to get caught. We are cheat because that it's morally wrong attitude. When I look back over these years, I made those decisions to not let certain people leave and not hire certain people because of reputation. Choose when I came out now, which is so humbling to me is that to go raise money and be able to be oversubscribed to the max I was able to raise from 150 From a new owner up to billionaire row banks, executive banks, attorneys. And this is like it I suffer those moments that certain brokers leave me a certain brokers came and have to go through different things. But I look back and say, you know something I could not have been here without not just because it can be experienced like that, that was built that reputation. When someone made a decision, should I trust and invest with Ira, they have a lot to say they couldn't find the example where I was dishonest anyway. Like I told people, I have no idea what's gonna happen. Do I think I'm going to revolutionize the industry, game changes whole industry, obviously got to believe it. And I got to work my heart is and all comes from God. I tell people one thing I could tell you that if it doesn't happen, there's only be one reason. Because God decided it's not going to be because Ira was dishonest. He should have done it this way or that way. I'm going to do whatever the book says I'm supposed to do. And that's the play. And I realized going back those 20 years, that's what the decision making because sometimes it doesn't make sense. 150 people they have some billionaires are admit that say I never do investment less than 2 million or 5 million. And no one here except one person put them on 250,000. So there's some people at the end, I'll hit over 25,000 Okay, just get me in for the first round. And to me, it was like, you know, it was a humbling experience. Like I tell people, I want to make sure I'm the same person that you know, my Jewish name is Israel. So I go by Ira. And that's my legal name is Ira. So some people say I you know, I take pride sometimes as I still know you when you name Israel, when I used to call Israel, we the same person. That's why I try to take pride in the whole thing. So to me, that's what I try all the time. At the end of the day, take that humbling mantra.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, I heard a podcast that you did. You did a series for I think your summer interns last year, which was really an awesome thing to do. So I listened to the last one, which was like your career advice to them at the end of the summer. And he talked about this idea of Oyl, of responsibility. Oil as you write it.
Ira Zlotowitz:By the way, oyl I train it to all non Jewish people. This is one word, there's no English word for it. You know, it's accountability or responsibility.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. But if you think about it, right. And your point was a powerful one, which is that people pay because they can trust you know, when to take responsibility. The fundamental part of that is trust. So I think what you're saying is that first and foremost, what people want to see is that they can trust you before I know, if you're capable of taking on responsibility, I need to know that I can trust you.
Ira Zlotowitz:You're in real estate. So you know, one thing I learned, oh, is when I talk to people who invest in real estate deals. They tell me more important than a good deal. It's an honest, it's an honest owner. The syndicators not honest I'd rather have a honest syndicator and a mediocre deal and the greatest deal the dishonest what's called or unknown even, that's, you know, makes it amazing.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Amazing. So you mentioned the fundraising. So let's move on to your newest venture: Gparenency. Right. And I think it's telling the name that you gave it, which is about transparency and speaks to the core value, I think of just trust. But can you talk about you know, what was your motivation? What is it and your motivation for reinventing the industry again?
Ira Zlotowitz:So it's, many, many things happened the same time I, as people know me over the last few years, I wanted already make certain moves earlier. And I got a lot of resistance internally by the by the broker in my office. A little bit over a year ago, I drew a line in the sand that said, listen, the world is changing us. And I won't be Netflix sales, and I didn't spend 25 years doing the same thing. To find out the main industry is like other industries, internet affecting them. You don't see stockbrokers, you don't see travel agent. You see boutique travel agents, of course, you don't see travel agent, you see them you don't see residential mortgage brokers the same way as percentage of the of the industry. And then the same is not commercial mortgages. The defining moment, I think was when the Internet became an unlimited data card. Because for the first time, the richest person in the world and the poorest person is no difference when it comes to internet. Excuse me. So if you're going on vacation, and someone that's wealthier than you that flying first class, so not as wealthy, they took the bus, someone stay in a motel, you stay in a hotel, you pay for the Disney tour, they just went to the park one day to three you went every single day is different. And you might go on a private island with a difference people who go in that's the same for $50 a month. So naturally closer, everyone has the same exact access. And once you're on that access, you seeing LinkedIn you're seeing tick tock is saying Facebook is saying all the things what's going on in society have access to everything the same way, the same data point, the same everything. And because of that, right now, if everyone realizes everything, the bar berries broken, I realized, oh, it's like, there were benefits like the hit when I talked about the history of mortgage broker, why the mortgage broker existed in the beginning, and evolution and where it is today. But for the most part, most borrowers that do use a broker, and it's one big myth, people think avenues are only 20% of owners exclusively use brokers, another 20% sometimes and 60% of direct the 20% use brokers a lot just based on a myth, it's not real I was bus taught to really not me, that's and that's what they paid on the larger deals that they the the annoying me is that if someone comes to the table and says I know of a structured deal, you're gonna work your tail off, you're gonna help me like, okay, just the vise. And even if someone says I just want you to run it to me, but there are situations where an owner beliefs things that just not true. And it was just like, I couldn't be involved those deals, I couldn't be involved those transaction, it wasn't like I, okay, let me benefit from it. And that I wasn't involved. In a lot of this transaction, I started to grow the business. So the world keeps changing. And I said, I want to open up a business that's going to cater to the 80% of the world, who has no part have a knack to the broker will always be a broker, it will never change. The difference is that let someone use a broker for the time is that they need that broker, like you need a certain professional and you pay them in my opinion, you're going to pay them based on the time and value they bring to the table. That's the change. That's the cultural change. The measure stick right now is I think broken it just based on ornament. So if tomorrow morning, I give an example at Joe calls me up and says Ira clip isn't my favorite my son's buying his first building. It's a million dollar building. That's called a million dollar loan. Can you get it done for me? I have to call the bank do us a favor and say hey, Joe's my friend, I promised you whomever the fault is given them the fault to the loan for him. What's my fee of$10,000 fee? But if I got a phone for the bills, biggest real estate, sorry, no, sorry, I only give you a lucky break out$100 million deal. I don't want to borrow 30 million. Every bank is clamoring for that deal. 30% loan to value. Every bank is going to cost the IRA do me a favor, please get that deal. Remember the other way they're using? They're asking for me to do them a favor the only one when I close that my fees 300,000 just doesn't make sense. It doesn't add up to the opposite of I spend a lot of time in your deal. And you want my time. Okay, how does the top attorneys charge $1800? It's not generic. Okay, you want my associate is five inch now going to six, whatever it is, how much should it be priced. As soon as they broken in the market change and watching every day, it's a 20% of us brokers shrinks. It's like carving out some of the deals to be part of the other 20% that sometimes they beat up the fees all the time, another person comes to the business, how broke he used to work me for five years, and maybe he left the business that he could stay in the industry. I broke six months they can think to themselves. And the truth is again, the truth is, you as a lender would want to talk to people directly. There's a myth they don't. So I say something, I want to play chess. I don't want to compete against people. Sometimes they can do things like dishonest and for the most appropriate mannerisms. But at times there are people in it, there's a bad apples everywhere. I said I want to be in a place where I can be honest and full transparent. I could walk into an automatic the game of chess. So these are this is a story. You want to call this banker. I'll talk to you directly. You want to go this way you can go here, these are the options you know I should use, right? Because if you need this value add on the right person that value at this level to be just a human. This should be a professional, what do you need? But the craziest part of the whole business people don't understand is that who does all the work? In every place the person doing the work is the underwriter. That same story said before it's that number two person does all the work. They don't get anything credit, they definitely get them big money, the big payday when it comes through, they can be involved in 6, 10, 12 $20 million with the fees, they make 100 to $300,000. The Gparency is only hiring underwriters, I started Gparency to myself, with my top broker that ran on my boat, the head of banking from Eastern male staff of 40, people will want you to go to seven, my co founder is coming out of Freddie Mac, to help build the technology. And we're coming to the marketplace, my growth isn't high, they're on the rise, I want to fund those best underwriters, and be able to go ahead and give them what they want controller they get the respect they deserve, they'll deal directly with the client. And they'll earn more Polka life as I've ever worked in the company, you know, he's gonna have shares in the company, every employee, from the person who sweeps the floor, all the way up to the number one originated recording our salespeople, account executives, and the people that are underrated, we'll have to change the title to more like a few, you know, with the tech world is going to they're called funding coordinators. So if you have an ego, don't come in. But if you want to be honest with who you are, what value providing, that's what I'm looking for, to go out and go out and build that business. So I'm really helping people be empowered to go direct. With no other options, let them use me just for the parts of the process, they want to use me it's not all or none of the parts of the process were the world needs. And that's how I build out. So there's a mortgage broker with that ADAPT is always going to be 10 to 20% of people use a broker, but those 10 to 20%. Base, I'm going to call them view success fee driven, or guaranteed payment true. And those will always be successful differences, then the fees be negotiated by valamint. Because I'm a broker some closers I'm a broker, my average fee is 20, 30 40,000 may have a problem with your business. No, not at all. I have to get more business. Because when people realize the value, that you might have someone to give you$20 million, they'll be willing to pay the same 40,000 You don't care how big the deal is. Because you're right, I'd love to get those deals are easy to work. Someone who's working on sitting back and doing 10 deals a year, half a million dollar fee each. I think that's what that's where the the shakeups can be. But I'm not I'm not the driver, the shake up, it's been happening. And like competition, the space now the brokers have done the same thing that doing different moves, this technology companies opening up is this this mortgage shops that are that are that are becoming banks. I don't know something's going on. This is so instead I said, Let me leave the train a broker, let me focus on a piece of the market with no competition.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. Yeah, it's so interesting, because you're right, I mean that bigger deals oftentimes have more sophisticated owners, right. So their financials are in better shape, they're operating, you know, better, they have a stronger net worth. And so those are easier deals to get done. And yet, you're gonna be making, those are the ones that are generating your multiples on fees.
Ira Zlotowitz:You want to take it to anohter level know, when I opened up how to get to the fellow, it's joining this co founder, I called up a, you know, I don't want to describe his title, because then people can narrow it down to to, to this person is, but suffice to say something very, very hot, I open Freddie Mac, and I said, you want to invest. And he came back, I'd love to invest, because he thinks we're going to standardize and digitize industry, we could be the leader of the movement, because I'm not looking to get higher fees. My goal is aligned, isn't my number. That's it, I'm charging by the hour. But this person couldn't get a waiver because of conflict of interest at Freddie Mac, this person told me and I was talking, so he made introduction to the fellow that's coming out as co founder. And, you know, when I call the first time I call up, you know, I knew the name from before because when someone comes out, you'll know what he did. I was like, cross cross paths with him formally. His co founder tells me that one of his drives to businesses, it's gonna it's gonna standardize the world is moving that direction. Anyway, every shop is getting digital. We call him an interesting thing. He said, When we sit sometimes in credit and Skype a deal. And the person comes in for a waiver to get a better rate, get a better something. And when they say I understand this guy's such a great owner repertories Amazing. Why does the new broker they don't understand the concept doesn't make sense. If you're that amazing. We want to hear from you why you going through an intermediary, and we're not talking about it to marry a gravestone. That's why it's set up these gray stones as other other of your of your of your competitors. That's only to get to Freddie Mac. But why is there a broker between the borrower and Freddie Mac and Grayson, and then the only interesting thing which I never thought of? He says all the decisions are based on credit. Credit is based on acid and based on the borrower sponsor. He told me that's what's so interesting is that, of course, the top brokers get a better rep, how great to do deals, they advertise what they did, but it's like they were able to get that pricing. If the owner was Mom and Pop Joe. So they come in and say, you know, we just got someone we got a 30 basis point waiver, I offered 10 years still, whatever the whole list of items are, that wasn't because of you the broker that was almost in spite of you, the broker. That was because that owner was the person that came in front of us, as on the table that already got the same deal. So here is thinking about it. They didn't realize that I'm struggling trying to build my business over the years. And I don't know I couldn't get a guy a quarter point Tommy's got a quarter of why can I get him a quarter off? Yeah, because you're not your friend. You're not the same credit worthiness as your friend. So it's like, it's Anthony's, your deal to get those things placed.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, that's, that's a great story.
Ira Zlotowitz:I can eat one thing, just remind this thing. One of the investors was in the top row from Cushman wants to invest. He called me back up, and he told me that the site can't his partners when it's conflict, it just couldn't want to look good. If you know, I have a few competitors investment is like a hedge fund something if the markets changing, he told me, he goes, you know, you're gonna change his business for me, because I have a couple of goals. He goes, I know, this fellow's genius. And he's from the top brokers. And he says, you know, the change is gonna be, I never thought of it this way. He says, I may have a few friends just as bright as me. Because the multifamily issues joke. And they don't say my enemies brokers, but you can use a broker that ahead of the best of the best, so that the brokerage goes but once a service and you're open, and even when along the way, you can actually be transparent and let them know what goes on how it works. They're gonna go ahead and start shifting to MySpace, I do the complicated deals, in five banks together a structure deals. I'm a broker. So my assignment xifaxan is if you're telling me like, I understand you do these deals, I'm bringing lenders together clubbing deals, of course, I have to get paid a fee. When you make a phone call to bank, you made a phone call to Greystone in your case, they do the work anyway. And you kick them the whole thing doesn't make sense. Like that conversation. Yeah. So I'm like Simon's has nothing to worry about. He'll be forever. He's a value add structured, high and broke are one of them.
Mordecai Rosenberg:So a lot of the the listeners of this podcast are salespeople. And I'm sure that they're hearing this and maybe they're getting a little nervous saying, Okay, well, what does this mean? For me, they could be brokers, they could be, you know, originators, either for properties or for loans. So what what advice would you give to a salesperson today? Maybe someone who's earlier early in their career, they're doing this for a few years out, like what kind of advice would you give someone? How do you position yourself to be successful when you have these headwinds coming at that at the legacy model?
Ira Zlotowitz:So I hear someone is really divided with sales person. So you know, breaking down is those are doing investment sales, brokerage. Yeah. And my belief of the world, they're not a threat. They're not they're not at risk at all. I think that the risk is going to be Marcus and Millichap. So the world CBRE, Cushman, the firm's if you think about Uber did, Uber didn't replace the cost of his drivers, they replaced the cost of his company and you made it costumes. You don't pick up the phone call CARS, or you press Uber or Lyft. Whoever you use. I think that was when I speak to more and more brokers investment sales brokers, why they work at the firm, because all the digital platform effects call exposure all these different things they have today with costar, you know, I said what's the biggest threat to my business of coastline decided to give banking information. That's my threat tomorrow. I'm one button away from being out of business through coaster. I mean, the markets changing. But now a broker work and Marcus Millichap. And I say it's an amazing firm, but you ask them why they're working there. They're working there because they have access to other people on the team. They have the platform, the buying cloud, but if there are systems like CoreXY, or these other things are coming out, and what is sticking around there, like on my platform, one things I plan on doing is allowing brokers to market directly to my clients. So I'm going to help them I don't think a broker is concerned about the salesperson I'm going to confirm that. But I do advise them to realize you better take technology and don't say technology's not gonna hit this industry, it's gonna, it's gonna hit the same way hit other industries, no technology to make a play, it is not gonna replace my message is not gonna replace the human. This is what is known. If you speak to any sales broker today, they could juggle up to 10 deals at a time just make up a number five years ago, they only handle six deals at a time. When they have better tools and resources. They just like do a deal anyway in the United States. Just realize someone else in Texas could help come out do a deal my backyard, just like you do the old Texas backyard. Now some of the better technology better systems. Everything's remote now, people so it's my office, Zoom USA. I happen to live outside the Lakewood, New Jersey. So in that respect, I tell them, You're going to go out there and you can handle 15 deals and kill 20 There are only 70,000 transactions a year 100,000 50,000 is how many humans like less than to be needed. Not because technology is replacing you. But technology is enhancing all of us that how many people have been left when it's all said and done. So not as Mortgage Broker, I say that I'm not coming in something new. It's been handling this direction, every broker has been frustrated, the fees keep dropping and the issues. It just like, well, I should wait too long until it totally dies out and sputters. I changed my fees a year ago, to a quarter of a point of multifamily. You know, and when I made the change, the top brokers walked out of the office 40% of my brokers Washington protest, actually, in high didn't plan to leave, they thought they'll bundled together and to get me to stop, they didn't realize the conviction, and I made a long term decision, this business model is going to die over time. I don't want to be I don't want to be nice. They said I have two years left, I said it's good for you, as a broker of a business, Sir, I didn't spend 25 years to have a business disappear and start again in two years from scratch. We thank God last month for more deals in our application than prior to I had my whole team ever before. So the mortgage business is not going away. If you're living in the space, if your fees are 50,000. Below, I think the threat always was the 50,000 above. But there's other companies that have built out they're looking to get rid of broken totally. So my message to brokers if you're nervous, and you should actually go join them. If you're a mortgage broker go to Eastern, because at least buy Eastern get the best commission structure, though, there's a cool licensing agreement on the technology that we're building. So the technology that we're building a Gparency is gonna be accessible to owners that our clients, and the one broke wood shop,we licensed it was Easter. So if you want to risk the benefits of all the perks, get the benefits of an old school business, we have to have to value yourself, Where do you think the world is going to? And find that spot? Listen, I can tell someone I'm not. I'm not isn't? If someone's really nervous that I'm gonna be the whole difference. Let me say something that way, we'll be talking, I'm going to get understand the market now. What's my my business plan, when I tell these investors this thing, I just get 10% of the market share, get it get a $10 billion exit, get 10% of the market share of just my eventual thing is subscription based. 10%. That's it 90% The put in perspective, Eastern years number three in American transactions. We did 1000 loans a year, the top broker 3600 It's not even 5% of the market. So market is so big. Yeah, if you something sad, always if you don't evolve, you know, you know, innovative die, that's always the line. So you sing and now I'm watching FinTech only times that when I started getting people to invest, they came back to me with a bunch of other companies that come into my space the same way. I'm saying thank God, I'm here now really what's going on? Because another year has been rolling out. It's terrifying. You see yourself what is grace on over lendo rolling out a way to go direct. So why don't we squeeze that all sides? So I'm the first one that I want. I'm basically building for the next year, I'm going to focus on how do I see the world in five years, I want to be that player in the middle five years from now.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yet, so I guess for a broker or salesperson, I guess one thing is, they should be thinking about don't just think about the next 12 months, right? Think about, you know, 10 years from now, what you know, given everything that's going where everything is going, how do you want to position yourself? You know, one thing that you also mentioned on on one of your podcasts that I listened to, in preparation for our conversation is that you are very focused on building, you know, level 12 team, like at a score of one to 10. You want someone who's a 12, right, in every area of support for a salesperson, right.
Ira Zlotowitz:Crystallize that no one's perfect 10. Yet, like I was saying, Before we extend the weaknesses, if I find the 10 in, in speaking, if I'm the 10 and number 10 excels. And so when a broker comes in, who is an average machine was eight great broker, a great, you know, an Eastern use the same exact broker had a cool funding quarter funding funding coordinator account executive, they could lean on the parts of their success and get 10 service throughout. So the client gets the full experience of a 10 plus across the board.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, yes. So if a salesperson just thinks alright, I did 20 deals last year. Yeah. How do I do 25 This year, they're not gonna be thinking that much differently. But if they say, Well, how can I do 75 deals? Understand yet, then it's like, well, let me Well, where can I position myself where I have the best support, you know, where there's technology that allows me to scale but they have to be thinking in that long term way.
Ira Zlotowitz:They have to be willing to take a risk, like he's sleeping. But even before the parents he opened, look at the last few companies that opened funding and technology. And what banks the wind is blowing follow the wind, that people who live in the same bar that why is black person out of business? They didn't see it coming. They didn't have the technology? Of course they did. Yeah, this little company, what's going to be the world is changing. And if you wait too long, yeah, how you adjust this, if you're a salesperson, big deal, you switch to another company that point, but the world is changing. And if you're not an adult, if you haven't embracing technology, and knowing it's here, it's going to be here. And like I said, more than a 12 month horizon, like Yeah, so I'm not building for today. I'm building for five years from today. So enter the Amazon, you start with Amazon and with Amazon. And we're going to say that people that understand what he was building, they thought today. So finally, the subcommittee figured I get to to date. Also next and one day, same day, he was always from day one that was his plan, so that people can watch it. Oh, I was gonna charge I'm hoping to perform with a charge like an attorney. People don't say what am I doing? I'm mortgage broker price, second attorney for$5,000, I will work your deal all the work of a broker through the signing of a term sheet. 100% no difference, human to human relate the same way. And then from term sheet to close with your option to go to direct to the bank. Go back to your other broker and leverage it. Or have me work it full or partially from another five grand to Max 15 grand 500 an hour. That's it. So you're going into a transaction price second term, some somewhat complicated. What's the difference? Same work, same same amount of time takes the process of deals 100 million 20 million? Like someone says, like, how much would you pay? To save $20,000? That's the line that's it's going a
Mordecai Rosenberg:Right? Right. Yeah, one thing I would I different direction. would just leave for the very idea that comes to mind for me. And that maybe at least some of our listeners with it is, you know, you always had a broker that was calling the bank, the banker, right? That was the source of business. You didn't have the banker calling the broker to try to get them involved. Oh, yeah. What do you mean? Well, in historically, right, we would have Eastern records would be calling Greystone to do a loan. Right? I'm not calling Eastern to say, you have to say, Hey, I've got an opportunity for you.
Ira Zlotowitz:Yeah yeah, call Eastern to bring you more opportunities. Yeah, right.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Right, but, you know, let's say I'm very focused now on portfolio retention within our servicing buck. Right. So one of the problems is that sometimes we don't have the best product in the market. Right. Sometimes Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are, you know, pulling back, you know, or, and maybe there's a bank or a debt fund or life company that has a better product, right? But but as a banker, right now, we're limited with what we can offer. Now, if you're, if you now with GE parents, if there's a service that you can provide for, you know, $5,000 $10,000, whatever it is, where we now we can add service. Now we can be we can provide something for our client, to say, hey, why don't you work with G parents, and they'll help you with get this loan. Now I'm able to be of value and service to the client, even when we don't have a product that meets their need.
Ira Zlotowitz:So that's what we're calling ourselves the first mile in ecommerce, by the way, a small problem some last mile. We plan on partnering up with banks, we described in reverse, do you have a client, we want to provide all the value say, hey, when we close it will close it. And for the ones we can't, we'll work together to parents and even at the price of only five grand, it's worth it to you to pay it. Right. You know, so many times that you're prepared to give brokers part of servicing a quarter of a point that every deal was five grand. The other side of the equation is attorneys will love it. Because attorneys do most of the work. Towards the end, they had to go to law school, the whole bill is on a refi 12 grand, sometimes five grand sometimes bang on a deal. And they get beaten up in like the it's so many attorneys investing. And they want to like bums what they said I'm sick and tired of coming to a closing they can't live with the fact that they were getting a $12,000 fee, do the work. And then this broker walks in late gets bring some food on the table walks out$100,000 Check ideas, let's bundle it with conflict this attorney go to a client say for$25,000 package. Let's do it together. I'll work out Eastern, I'll get the whole transaction so it's going to change but again, I'm focusing that focus on the 20% when I call sometimes I'll use a broker. I said are you nervous a deal closing if you are a success, instead of a blog, I focus on the 80% of people and those that and the few percent those that use a broker that feel they just need a professional. So if you need a broker, I'm not changing you and I don't want to change it is Eastern Union. The greatest brokers there they now boutique shop into every type of loan all different structures have great health care division, they everything from equity that whatever they can help out with, they could get it done. But when you're not when you don't need to broker a deal, you want to do it yourself. You want to shop the market double check something I called FOMO. You have FOMO that you're missing out on the fear of missing out if you do five grand you won't have any phone. You'll know you got the best the only take it out to the market.
Mordecai Rosenberg:I don't know if you ever read the book, The Innovators Dilemma, which by Clayton Christensen. But he talks about the how disruptive innovation happens. Right and what you're describing is is really the the model that that he talks about that let's say when Toyota wanted to come into the US market, right? They didn't come in and compete with Cadillac. Right? They they came in and found that there was more downstream, that was not where their needs are not being met. Right? So there was yes, it was it was too expensive to buy a catalog. So they provided a car that had maybe not as many of the bells and whistles, but it provided all the functionality that was necessary. And they created an entirely new new market going downstream and addressing that unmet need.
Ira Zlotowitz:That's how I feel. Well, I've got that, but I'm going for two markets. One is that people go direct. And the other market is the banks that want to wait to market to go direct. So we have we're signing up now banks to be strategic partners with us. We're going to build together the standardization. Yep. 150 CTOs of each of these banks that said, Okay, how can we standardize how the communication happens? How do we standardize the loan docs that we standardize the process? Because doesn't make sense that yourself and your contemporaries are, are ending up at Fannie Mae get you'll have different loan docs, it doesn't make sense. Applications exactly the same. But who was motivated? Yeah, I'll be motivated to do it because I'm rocking the GPS interest.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Ira, how can people learn more about Gparency see or get in touch with you, you know, I think really just, you know, borrowers and lenders alike should really be thinking about you, they should be learning more, at the very least, and see how they can leverage your service.
Ira Zlotowitz:I appreciate that. So the best way is for the company and father companies that the gparency.com you know, and you know, we started off now as a doing the human side back by technology, but over the next year, I'm gonna be making more a tech company ever to be on the side your parents, but I take pride that I respond to every email. My email address is Ira Z, SG parenting, Ira z at GP a rency.com. And I give him my cell numbers. 917-597-2197 always been service business. voicemails pretty tough today. So it's a WhatsApp, this, but before I go to sleep, I respond to every every message. So yes, the strength, I'm a very big delegator, I get messed up, sometimes. I'm very trust, I trust, I want to be trust advisor, I'm very trusting of people until I start with you, I trust you, unless you you will breach the trust. So someone reaches out and right away, put you in touch with the right person. If I can't help you, I'm going to say no, very often, you know, if I can't help you, it's not for you, but no front. And I tell somebody, I tell everyone, I can't close your deal, always. But I guarantee you one thing along the way, full transparency, you'll know what I think I can do. And you if there's an issue at the end, it's not because of lack of training, lack of transparency, you'll know that second
Mordecai Rosenberg:Fantastic. Well, Ira, thank you for being so generous with your with your time. I know you've got so much going on with it with the with the new companies starting up. And really, thanks for being an inspiration to the industry. It's amazing to see what you're doing. And I wish you a lot of luck, and, and muscle and how it should all it should. It should all go well, you're doing great.
Ira Zlotowitz:I appreciate that. I thank you very, very much. And thank you for the opportunity. And like I say now somebody asked me this question of, you know, changing a business I said, there's a lot more people that can be benefiting from this move than won't be. So we have Ms. 80% have never used a broker so not using a broker. So that's the market I'm targeting to so thank you again, looking forward to continuing our great relationship. Thank you so much
Mordecai Rosenberg:Right, tak care, Ir