Origination
Join us as we delve into the world of multifamily and commercial real estate, engaging in insightful interviews with industry-leading loan originators and salespeople. Discover the secrets that set apart these top performers from the competition as we uncover the strategies and skills that drive their success.
Origination
Episode 18: Aaron Jungreis, Founder and CEO of Rosewood Realty Group, Taking "Hustle" to a Whole New Level, the Importance of Being Proud to Sell Your Service, Picking Yourself Up After a Deal Dies, NYC Market Update, and More
Aaron Jungreis is the founder and CEO of Rosewood Realty Group. Aaron started the company in 2007 and has sold over 2,200 properties with an aggregate value in excess of $16 billion. Aaron started this firm from scratch in the most competitive market in the world, New York City. He went up against the largest brokerage firms in the world. Aaron has given a new definition to the word hustle, and if you want to know what hustle looks like, tune in now.
Timestamps:
1:40-13:50 First Sales Experiences
13:53-17:30: Confidence, realizing he is great at sales but getting through some hardships to find that.
18:20 - 26:18: Early on approach to real estate
26:22-29:48: The power of Hustling
30:41-34:57: How Aaron stays motivated
35:29-42:54: Lessons in Real Estate Aaron's experience taught him
42:56-48:06: The New York Real Estate Marketing today
lenders, market, people, loan, client, equity, selling, deals, screen protectors, year, calls, rates, business, borrower, easy, long, sales, chase, interest rates, debt
Hey everyone, it's Mordecai. And welcome back to the Origination Podcast, where we interview the top brokers and salespeople in the multifamily industry to understand what separates the top performers from the rest of the pack. My guest in this episode is Aaron Jungreis. Aaron is the founder and CEO of Rosewood Realty Group. Aaron started the company in 2007 and has sold over 2200 properties with an aggregate value in excess of $16 billion. Now, Aaron started this firm from scratch in the most competitive market in the world, New York City. He went up against the largest brokerage firms in the world. How do you compete with an environment like that? In a word, hustle, man, no one hustles like Aaron, and he gives a new definition to the word. If you want to know what hustle looks like, I think you'll enjoy this episode. I certainly enjoyed the conversation. So without further ado, let's talk to Aaron. Aaron Jungreis, welcome to the Origination Podcast. It's a delight to have you here.
Aaron Jungreis:Thank you.
Mordecai Rosenberg:So, Aaron, I'd like to start by taking a little trip down memory lane and going back to some of your first sales experiences. So when you think about your earliest sales experience, does anything come to mind? It could be high school, grade school, you know, summer jobs after college. But what comes to mind as far as the earliest sales experience you can think of?
Aaron Jungreis:I think the earliest sales experience I had was when I was actually working for the Jewish Press in Brooklyn. It's a publication that's still in existence right now, actually.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, I've seen it. I know it.
Aaron Jungreis:And I used to sell ad space. So I would call people and try to convince them to buy ad space in the Jewish Press. And you know, they would get a lot of readers there were no clicks or anything like that, this was in the '90s, 1992 and 93. So I was like, 22 years old at the time. So wow, that's my first experience.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Wow. So how did those calls go? First of all, how did you know who to call?
Aaron Jungreis:Well, they gave you a list of businesses to call that were in, let's say, Brooklyn or Queens; frankly, they were all Jewish businesses. And you would call them and say, hey, you should advertise in the Jewish Press. And I liked it. Even though I left the job. After a few months, I liked calling people and, you know, schmoozing with them, connecting with them on a personal level. And even though I left, as I said, a few months later, I then went to be a salesman at New York Life, which is again, selling I was just selling life insurance, instead of ad space.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. So at the Jewish Press, cold calls, for a young person starting out in the business, are like the scariest thing to do. And you're saying that you really loved doing that. So how did that go? What were the first 15 seconds of the call to get the person to want to continue a conversation with you?
Aaron Jungreis:Well, I would introduce myself, and a lot of times people know, the last name Jungreis, because in the, at least in the Orthodox circles, it's somewhat well known in a good way. You know a rabbinic family has a lot of heritage in the family. So I would always get a question of, you know, who I'm related to in the Jungreis family. And it wasn't scary. I know what you're saying because I have guys who work for me now in real estate, and I see on those cold calls, they shudder, you know, they get very nervous, they don't know what to say. But I don't know why I was always a friendly type, outgoing guy. So I did not mind getting on the phone and, you know, trying to push a product.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. And so they'd say, All right. Hi, this is Aaron Jungreis calling from the Jewish Press. Yeah, we'd like to talk to you about advertising.
Aaron Jungreis:Yes. Yep.
Mordecai Rosenberg:They'd say, Jungreis. Yeah. Are you related to Esther Jungreis?
Aaron Jungreis:Correct, there you go. Right. Right, or Rabbi Jungreis? And I would say yes, and of course, I would then go into how great the Jewish presses, how many readers they got, how much money they would make from all these ads they put in, and like I said, I didn't love it. But I liked the fact that I was talking to people; I just didn't pay enough, frankly.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Right. So did you have statistics on the revenue, the revenue they would generate, like the return on investment from those ads?
Aaron Jungreis:No way. We did not even know that we just said that, there were, you know, X 1000s of readers. And again, there was nothing on the internet, so that's all. We would pitch how many readers there were and that it's seen in every, you know, store and supermarket and barbershop and Flatbush and Muncie in the five towns and how it was the paper for Jewish readers on, you know, the weekend on Shabbos. So it got you to know that that's really what you were pushing; you were pushing mainly orthodox owners of businesses, not only because some of them weren't, but definitely, you know, catering to Orthodox readers.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Right? And do you remember making a distinction in what type of business it was? Because one person could be a hardware company, and another could be a landscaping company, another could be selling vacations or travel agents? Like, you know, I would imagine that there's maybe some difference in terms of how you would be presenting to them.
Aaron Jungreis:Yes, yes. Even though I was a young kid at the time, I remember distinguishing, you know, different businesses, part of it, as if I knew a lot about the business, I would tell them why I thought it was a good business. And if I even didn't know a lot about it, I would still push it just because it's, you know, in a good neighborhood, let's say in Brooklyn. And you know why I thought it was a good product. I was very; I was pretty quick on my feet as a salesman. So even if I didn't know a lot about the product that I was calling about, I was able to sell it right away. I felt I could always sell that product and why it would be a good idea to advertise.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, and it's probably fair to say that you believed in the product, you felt like you would honestly be do good things for their business.
Aaron Jungreis:Always, you know, I always tell the guys even now, I have so many listings that come in every day. And I truly, truly pick the ones that I believe in; they don't all workout. But every deal I'm selling, because I get, let's just say, you know, 20 deals a day, I'll pick three or four that I think are really saleable. So yes, that's true. I actually did believe in the product when I called them.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, that's great. So then from there, you went on to life insurance. How did that go? How did the beginnings of that age go.
Aaron Jungreis:I learned first about life insurance, which took a couple of weeks, you know, you have to take a little refresher course at I was at New York Life, you have to take a short ourse about it, and different, ou know, terms like this term ife and whole life and all ifferent types of products and nnuities, and, you know, mutual unds with mixed in with life nsurance, like variable nsurance. So I learned all that tuff. It took me a couple of eeks; I started pitching it to riends and family. The thing hat I did not like about that I ove, I made a little more oney. But what I didn't like w s when I just mentioned f iends and family, I had to c ll my good friends and my f mily. And that was part of w at they told you how to do the f rst person, you reach out to o r friends and family, and then y u work your way down. And then y u try to get referrals from y ur friends and family. And I f lt uncomfortable. And that was I think the biggest issue it w s, I didn't like it at the b ginning. And I didn't like it a the end. And that's t e reason why I left. I really di not like bothering friends and family to spend money on, y u know, ensuring their death. I like, you know, I was makin a little money, not enough to f ed a family I had just gotten married to. But I think, more im ortantly, I did not like pitch ng your friend and your famil on them spending money even if thought it was a great product. I just didn't like it; it wa a little uncomfortable.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, life insurance, would you consider a commodity product?
Aaron Jungreis:Well, everyone can get it.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Right like the Jewish Press-- that was a singular offering, right? There's no other day fill of a niche that no one else does.
Aaron Jungreis:Correct? Yeah, I was saying I was one of five to 10 people they had spoken to in the last few months that were pitching it, and it was just like you said it was. It wasn't like the Jewish press, which at least was I was calling on behalf of that one newspaper. I felt like I was competing with other companies and other insurance brokers, and I also felt I didn't know enough about the product, I was still a young salesman, and they were seasoned veterans who were calling these guys. So I felt I was a little out of my league, as far as knowing all the products. And, more importantly, I felt like I was pushing in the friends and family, and I really didn't like being in that position.
Mordecai Rosenberg:That makes a lot of sense. So let me ask you if you were to fast forward to today if you had a friend or a family member, who you knew was looking to potentially sell their asset, would you be comfortable pitching them?
Aaron Jungreis:Yeah, absolutely. Yes.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Right. So I think what that tells you is that it wasn't just a hesitation about the fact that you had to sell to friends and family. It's what I suspect is that you're very confident in what you can provide and feel like you can provide them with a better service in listing their property than anyone else in the market. Where to be to work for New York Life. It's like, well, it's New York Life Mass Mutual. Again, it feels like more of a commodity. Does that resonate?
Aaron Jungreis:100%. Yeah. Look, when I talk to anyone, if they're a friend or a family, if they're not, I always want to help them. If it's someone who I don't know, I want to sell it because I think I'll get them a great price. But if it's a friend or a family, even more so because I want to show them hey, I know you told me you thought you were going to get x, I'll get you x plus. So, I think it's something that I look forward to actually. It's the opposite of life insurance; I look forward to selling. Rarely, you know, when do my friends call me, it's usually people who are clients, even though a lot of my clients have become my friends, by the way, over the years. But when it's a close friend who calls me for a building, or on the rare occasion, a family member, which I did a couple of times, I feel like I go all out. I mean, I always go all out, but I want to show them, you know how much money I can get them, and I love doing it.
Mordecai Rosenberg:I think there's probably another distinction between life insurance of what you're doing now, in that you can control; tell me if this is correct. Still, I think with what you're doing now; you can control a lot more of the experience than you can selling life insurance. Right, selling life insurance, you have, like, the experience of all the forms you have to fill out, and then the nurse comes to, you have to get your blood tests, and that is such a horrible process. And there's very little that you can do as a salesperson and control that. Where now, if you want to be on top of every detail and ensure that they have the most high-end Black Label experience, you can, in short, ensure that that's the case.
Aaron Jungreis:Correct, I agree.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, that's something I mean, your side of the aisle is the investment sales business. I grew up in the debt business, that's something that I struggled with. With some of our loan products right, some of them felt like they were more commodity-oriented than others. For FHA, we built a process that I knew was just far and away the best in the country. You have four agencies, you know, Fannie and Freddie there; they limit you in terms of how much you can accomplish sometimes. So I feel like if someone feels hesitation in selling friends and family, maybe that's an interesting litmus test on how confident you are in your product.
Aaron Jungreis:Right, I agree.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. So when did you realize that you could be good at sales? Was it from that first experience? Or second, or from life insurance? Like, when did you feel like, okay, this is something I can do?
Aaron Jungreis:Well, I'll tell you something, you just reminded me, that's something I'll just harken back to before I was even at the Jewish Press. I think, I tried to get a job. It might have been in between the Jewish, but it was before the Jewish Press. I tried to get a job selling watches. And I'll never forget. So I guess I have just been a salesman. The guy told me, you know, he doesn't think I'm a salesman. Because a friend of mine was working at the watch company and brought me in, he thought I'd be great, and it didn't work. The interview didn't work. I thought the interview went fine, but the guy didn't think I had it, and it was funny because, you know, now that I've been recognized as a pretty good salesman over the last 25 to 28 years. But I did not realize that until it was a couple of years in the business when I started to, you know, get regular sales, I really think that's when it hit me. I always thought I was a good salesman, but I think it hit me a couple of years in when I was actually producing. And I realized, wow, this could actually be a career like, I could actually see it being a full career. Because usually people are salesmen, and then they go, they want to go on to something else. I realized early on that this could be it for me. And I say that in a good way. Like, this is great, I found my, you know, niche, and it's being a salesman, and it's moving, you know, product, which most people are very happy that you sold it to them. The other thing was also the big distinction between life insurance. Even Jewish press is that when you call up a store to advertise, they may not want to anyone you're calling in real estate, they want to buy something their businesses buying and adding to their portfolio, they might not like the building you're giving them. But when you pick up the phone, if they trust you, they say hello, they're happy, you're calling. What do you have? Obviously, they're quick, they don't have a lot of time, but you're pushing a product that they want to buy; it just has to fit into certain parameters. But that's another thing also that I liked. I liked that people wanted to hear from me.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Right? It's a very interesting dynamic I find in investment sales; there's much more of a, I don't know if you want to call it a quid pro quo, but certainly, a give and take relationship with the client. Because, you know, as a debt originator, if I call someone up, I want to sell them a loan. Right? They may need loans, but they don't necessarily need it from me; they can go to any other firm and get and get that loan. But when it comes to investment sales, right, there could be they need you because if you get a particular listing that they want, they want you to be there, they want you to know them, or maybe not like in terms of getting into the New York, invest in the sales business. I mean, if there's any business that's competitive in the world, in any market, it's got to be New York multifamily. So that takes a lot of courage to start out competing with a lot of the legacy names. So what drove you to that decision?
Aaron Jungreis:Well, first of all, I didn't even realize at the time when I started, I was so young that there was, you know, a Kushman and the CBRE and these other huge national firms. I was in a little bubble in Brooklyn, and then you know, starting to work at GFI. At the time, I didn't realize yet that I was competing with heavy, heavy hitters. It was only when I started to succeed in my first couple of years that I realized that there were guys who were way ahead of the firms that were way ahead of me. And frankly, I couldn't even imagine competing with them. They were so big; PS I did later on, but for the first few years, I actually thought I would carve out a good space for myself, but I never thought that I would be able to compete until much later on.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. So how did you come approach a first meeting? I said, in terms of carving out a space that worked for you? Right? So these are you know, it'd be an A you're trying to get a listing? How do you pitch them? What do you tell them that you're going to do differently as compared to what they would get with a crisp banner CBRE or larger firm?
Aaron Jungreis:So the thing that I started doing very early on, believe it or not, was I would go again, this is before Google, this is before ways I would go every Sunday I really did this, I would go wake up at 5am on a Sunday. And I would hit like 50 properties in the Bronx. Hit 50 properties in Brooklyn, go to Queens go to Manhattan, I really started to know the streets. And when you go Sunday, first of all, everyone's sleeping. There's no traffic. Some of the neighborhoods I'm in let's say some guys were unsavory people. They're sleeping also. So I was able to walk into buildings, get into buildings, see them, hit hit a lot of buildings in one day. and report back to the owners and say, Hey, I saw, you know all these buildings over the last weekend. And this is what I find. And people I think were very impressed that I was taking the time to actually look at the buildings and not just rely on papers because like I said there was no Google so you couldn't take pictures. So unless you went with your camera again, no, no phones. So unless you went with your camera, you wouldn't take pictures. You wouldn't see the property. And I took the time and I made sure people knew I went Sunday at 6:23am. Because I figured if I'm doing it already, I might as well take advantage, you know, people get a little freaked out, wow, this is pretty crazy. But I did it a because I really wanted to get all my work done and come back and see my wife and kids in the morning. But also because I wanted them to, you know, know that, hey, Sunday morning, 5am, I'm at your property. And I did this for many years. And I really got to know the streets of Brooklyn and the streets of the Bronx, and the streets of Queens. And the streets of Manhattan, I think just better, better than almost anyone I knew. Like I really knew every block where every building was, and I was able to, you know, just on recall name just about every building. So it helped me a lot when I spoke to owners, because they realize that I really knew who the owners were how many units were in the building. What distinguish each neighborhood, you know, you can go you could say Broadway is great, right? But Broadway starts in the financial district, and it goes all the way through, you know, the village and you know, Midtown and Times Square, and then it goes to the Upper West Side, right. And then it goes into Columbia, Harlem, Washington Heights. So saying Broadway is a great block. Some parts of Broadway are good some parts are. So I really got to know, every street every side street. And and I really focused only on multifamily. So I never was that strong in the office or retail. But I focused on multi only. And at the time, people also said you should only focus on one borrow. And I focused on all four, oh, this is the fifth borrow, but Staten Island doesn't get much. Press unfortunately. So I really felt and they don't have many apartments. So I went and and toured you know the areas and toured them well. And I would talk to people with that knowledge in hand. So I think that distinguish me. And also, I've always been pretty good with numbers and have a good memories, I would remember what all the income and the expenses were of every building. So I was able to just spout out numbers right away and talk to people about what's a good deal and what isn't and what the price is and what the multiple of rent is and what the cap rate is. So if you're quick in math, you know, it's again, it's basic math, it's not difficult. It's not algebra, trigonometry. But if you're quick in math, you're able to, you know, figure out what the numbers are pretty quickly. So, you know, it's not a, it's not a business for rocket scientists. It's usually for guys who are hustlers, who are 80 students in class, or B plus students. It's not for the Harvard or the Yale guys. So I worked very hard. I think that was the biggest thing. I think you'll find on any interview anyone who made it or made it in their field, they'll tell you, they probably worked harder than everyone. I think that I could probably say I worked harder than anyone, at least in my office in the city.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, it sounds like that. And I've watched a couple of other interviews that you've done in the past. So we'll get into your work ethic, because it really is is something to behold. So we'll get into that just a little bit. So when you were going on these tours and looking at the properties, were you looking at a property of an owner that you wanted to pitch? Or were you is this relating to an existing listing that you had or that you were in the process of pitching. And then you were doing market research, like what properties were you looking for when you were doing that?
Aaron Jungreis:Both, I would be looking at a first I'd be looking at the property that I actually had gotten for sale that either someone in my office had brought in, or that I was going to bring in or that an owner was interested in selling. And I would say great, I'll go look at the property. So it was that but once I'm there, I would then say hey, I'm parking on the corner of Creston Avenue and East 1/83. Let me go look at all the buildings on the block. And so it morphed into looking at other buildings too, because I was there anyway. And again, I just thought if I was absorbing it and actually seeing it and walking in and seeing what front door was left open and what was broken, seeing what window was broken at the basement and seeing if the buildings were clean, or you know if there was the elevator was working, doing all those quick walkthroughs it was really vestibule tours, a lot of it was just that you would go in, if you can get into the vestibule door, you'd go in, you saw it, you could see how the building smelled if it was clean. And I would literally bang out, you know, 4050 buildings on a Sunday. And again, it was a cursory look, most of the time, I didn't go to the roof, but you would get a real flavor just going in for a minute or two and, you know, just absorb it.
Mordecai Rosenberg:How are you able to get in or the front doors just open?
Aaron Jungreis:Quite a lot of times. First of all, front doors are always open. It's the best, it's the door. It's the second door that sometimes isn't open but either I would see someone leaving but again, sometimes it's really really early, or I would just get in myself. A lot of times they were left open.
Mordecai Rosenberg:And so would you then use that to identify who owned that building and try to reach out to that person? Or was it more? Like, would you net worked out that way?
Aaron Jungreis:Yes, I would network that way. Absolutely. And tell the owner of the building next door, Hey, I just saw this other building and it was a much better cap than yours, or it was worse than yours. Who is the owner? Or do you know anything about? So I would, again, I would use it for more for informational purposes. So again, so I just saw, you know, 10 buildings today, let me make sure to talk to the owners, or let me talk to the neighbors of the owners, and tell them what I saw. Yeah, because ultimately, I was going for us, usually, for a specific purpose was to look at a building that I was getting for sale, and then I'm going to build off of that. And see maybe I'm getting the buyer who's next door. Or maybe I'm getting another seller who's next door.
Mordecai Rosenberg:But yeah, for those guys, would you call and give them any advice or feedback on what you saw you'd like, you know, hey, by the way, like your your lobby is kind of sucky. Like your door. Someone left the door open in the front? Of course.
Aaron Jungreis:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Mordecai Rosenberg:There's something about, there's certainly a power to hustle. Yeah, that when you see when, if you see a young person really hustling and like you said that they were, you know, up at 5am on a Sunday to go tour your property that is going to make an impact. So a couple of questions First, how do you mean team that? You know, I think lots of times you'll see people were in their 20s they're doing that, but then they get they start getting more successful and doing a lot more business, then it's, it's hard to maintain that level of attention. Yeah, I know, I heard you say that, that. You're you're still trying to make 200 calls a day. I don't know if that's this is maybe from a couple years ago about and if you're still doing that, you know, you're on the phone yet? 25, seven or six? Like, how do you maintain that level of focus and attention? You know, even as your pipeline grows, it's a lot easier to do when you have two deals, and then when you have 50?
Aaron Jungreis:Yeah, I don't know, I that's never been a problem. I just, I have so much I've created so much work to do that. If I leave now, even now, when we get off the phone, I'm gonna probably answer 50 emails that I see out of my left eye are piling up, I'm going to answer a bunch of calls. And I don't know, I just feel like it's my duty to do it. So. And though answering those calls will create more work, because ultimately, those are buyers and sellers will have to follow up with so I just know, one way forward, even if I have a bad deal or, or a bad day where I had, you know, two deals fall apart. If I get upset, and walk out and, you know, take a break, I'm just going to be more upset that I wasted two to three minutes, lamenting it, then just going on to the next call and you know, getting on to the next deal. So even when I would, at the beginning of my career, when I would have a deal fall apart. Sometimes I would go out for an hour, a couple of times I left for the day. Again, these are deals you worked on for weeks, and they just were dead. And then it became less and less every time where sometimes I would go out outside the building, you know, for a bite and then it became like a minute break and then it became zero now when when the deal falls apart. I'm upset for not even a second he just I always have a phone ringing or an email. The answer is I don't think about it. It's not because I don't care about it. I just I can't help. What just happened, you know, I can do the best point guard, right, you can be a great point guard and you could dribble the ball and no one could steal it from you. And you give your player the best pass. And all he has to do is dunk the ball and no one's around. But if he misses, you lose. So ultimately, you're not as a broker. That's the one thing you're never in full control.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Right? Has that translated in other areas of your life? I mean, that's a powerful thing to be able to just have absorbed the negative and just kind of let it they talk in martial arts, I think about having a mind like water, you know, we're a pebble in and it ripples and then comes down. Right? Do you find that at home or in other areas of your life that as you've gotten better at dealing with deals falling apart, you're able to deal with, I don't know, upset parent or child or whatever, that you're able to just maintain calm more more easily.
Aaron Jungreis:Yeah, but I think ultimately, even this, you know, it's really play. It's just, you know, you're in that sandbox every day. You get thrown in there and you want to grab as much as you can And then you go back out and you go to real life. Even I know that it's still. It's it's not. It's not fully. This is not life and death. This is, this is what we do for a living. I take it extremely seriously, like, I want to get every deal done. And I'll do anything for a buyer and the seller, but I don't I don't really take it home with me Believe it or not I sometimes I'm upset, but so no, no, because even in my personal relationships, and I'm not as forgiving as I am on the deal. Sometimes I'll get upset. And I'll have a little emotions when on a deal. I just I have to move on. Because there's not like I said, there's nothing I could do.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. Yet, how do you stay motivated? You know, you've had a ton of success. Yeah, one of the leaders in New York City Market, which is the top market in the world? You know, how do you stay motivated to fight for that next? That next deal?
Aaron Jungreis:I think if you would interview me tomorrow, or a year from now, and you say, Hey, what happened to you? I wouldn't want to hear that question. So I think it's the fear of losing. That's it. Fear, I think what, whatever, just not being not being at the top or near the top. So I think it's, I just don't want to once I'm doing what I'm doing, I want to be relevant. I spent so much time doing this. So I don't want to ever have to feel the question from you or an interview or anyone Hey, what happened to you? You used to be a great broker, and you're not so I just the fear of not having that. You know, title, so to speak, I think is just the biggest motivator. You know, when you win when you win a game, it's like when the Yankees beat the Mets, I remember I'm a big Yankee fan. And when the Yankees won, I left let out a sigh of relief. It wasn't even joy. It was just, you know, we were expected to beat the Mets. The Yankees were the big brother and the Yankees were, if they would have lost to the Mets, I would have heard of that in synagogue and for years. And I remember the it was more of a sigh of relief when they won. I was happy. But it was more of a sigh of relief. It wasn't just pure joy. No, I don't want to ever, you know, be number two or maybe number 10? I don't know. I don't want to be at the bottom.
Mordecai Rosenberg:So yeah, I'm part of a coaching program called strategic coach does run by a guy named Dan Sullivan. And he talks about retirement. He says that when he retired, the applause stops. Right. And no one wants the applause to stop.
Aaron Jungreis:Right. So well, you know, I already said it best. Why? Why do they keep writing because they in football, they keep score, right? There's a reason why they keep score. Otherwise, what's the sports right is everyone keeps score. It doesn't mean that after you know the basketball team loses, they shake their hand of the other team, but you're keeping score. So you might as well I mean, it does count and you're doing waking up at crazy hours and working on 100 different things at the same time. You want to win. It's not a it's not a bad quality. You're just doing it so you want to do well. I mean, it's like even in anything you do. You want to be a great father, you want to be a great husband. So you want to be a great sibling and son. So if you're if you're going to do it, and it has so many ramifications, right? You might as well do it great. Yeah, I met I don't waste a second by the way. I never waste a second. I don't go out to smoke a cigarette. I eat by my by my desk I as I'm hanging up on the phone with someone I'm already dialing on the next one because I don't want to have you know, one second being wasted. Right. I remember in when I was in yeshiva, they used to tell you, you should never waste a second when you're learning you know, Tomlin right. autorun. So I always, you know, put it to work and you have to do the same thing. So and you're on Commission's I don't understand, I always tell even the guys who work for me are on commission. So talk us out. So I have to try to grab every, you know, second, I can get the dates precious.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. For sure. So it's safe to say that it's really at this point, it's it's not about the money, per se, right. It's about kind of the first of all, it's the competitiveness or you don't want to lose, it's the thrill of the chase. What I found is that the top sales guys at some point, and it's oftentimes pretty early, if they have early success, it stops being about about the money or the commission. There's something about the thrill of the deal and going after that, right?
Aaron Jungreis:True. True. Yeah.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Do you find that with younger sales guys that are coming up? Do you see that kind of hustle? Do you think it's millennials and Gen Z? You definitely get a bad rap sometimes. But I found that there's some that are very hungry as well.
Aaron Jungreis:Yeah, yeah. I don't find that I find that in fact, I'm actually surprised. I know some kids in my neighborhood or kids whose parents are very successful, and they're very hungry, and in fact, much smarter than I'll ever be. And definitely smarter than I was. I mean, these guys that 2122 23 They know so much. They're so tech savvy, and they've learned and stored more information than I ever had. So I think they're coming in honestly, and I better prepared than I ever was.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. If I asked you, what do many originator or salespeople get wrong? You know, most salespeople, like believe X or do this. But really, why? anything come to mind as far as a common mistake that you see salespeople make?
Aaron Jungreis:Yeah, I think it sounds crazy, because I think you have to push hard. But I think sometimes they push too hard. I rarely push too hard. I do it only when I really feel we're gonna lose that deal. And because I don't do it often. I think when I say that to a buyer and seller, I think they'll listen to me because they know I don't always say well, if you don't do this skill, you know, by today, you're going to lose it. You know, I hate when people do that, or unless again, it really is sometimes it really is true. Because there is a day that's gonna come that if you don't sign this contract, by tomorrow, you will lose it. But I think I use that only when I have to. But I see some people maybe being too pushy. And then frankly, again, sometimes salespeople don't follow up, I think that's a big problem. I'm a big follow up guy, when I send an email out, I make a note, or I write something down that I have to call within 48 hours, I don't want to call in three hours, Hey, did you look at this, but I'll call you know, in two or three days. So I think that's also a mistake. And then I think the other mistake, and this is not even something that I don't even know if it's something people could work on. But it's feeling literally feeling and going inside the mind of a buyer and a seller, and really having true empathy as to what they're going through. And if you're the buyer, when I say empathy, it's like, how difficult it is to pay X dollars, and I want this product, but I also have to pay for it. And for the seller, it's how difficult it is either parting with it, or all the different terms that they have to agree to and go through. So I think, really understanding the mindset of the buyer and the seller. I think as a salesperson, a lot of people make that mistake and don't really get it like really understand how hard it is and what goes into the decision to make to sell and to buy.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, that's really interesting. I haven't heard that talks about before the emotional attachment that someone has, with a property, right that maybe they've owned for 20 3040 years, they've been in a family for longer than that, of course, how did you realize that, like I do get into the mind of a seller or a buyer.
Aaron Jungreis:But it's not only that, it's also is this the right decision? I know you're I know, you bought this for 5 million, and now it's 15. But maybe it'll go for 18. Next year, I'll maybe go for 22. But maybe you could do something with them. Like, like actually questioning and that's, that's the thing that people don't want to do. Because when you know you have the deal just about locked up and your seller is not sure. Most guys will just say no sell it, it's a good move, do it. Whereas a lot of times, and I really will do this, I'll say I get it, maybe we should think about it. Let's talk about it now, let's talk about it tomorrow, we'll talk to your accountant or your attorney, and actually putting your deal at risk because it's your deal. And if they don't sell it, they still have the property. But if they don't sell it, you don't have a commission. So you have to almost put their needs first. Because if you do, they'll see that and they'll use you on the next time anyway for sale. So how do you do that? Well, first of all, I think there's there's a big word that everyone uses, right? They're sympathetic and sympathetic is like if your father passed away and you you you consoled them and you say, Hey, I'm so sorry about that. Whereas empathy, right is a much deeper word. Empathy is my father passed away, your father passed away, I know exactly what you're going through. I went through it myself. And empathy is something that you can't really explain to people they either get it or they don't. So when you truly empathize with a client, truly, then you could really relate to them on a different level. And so, I think whether it's a buyer or a seller Do you truly empathize with them? Again, that means putting your commission at stake, I think you'll get to another level. And I think a lot of salespeople not only in real estate in any sales position probably don't do that enough, because it's, it actually threatens to sell. And that's you're taught to sell, sell, sell. Whereas sometimes if you empathize with them truly, you're actually thought to put their needs first. And it's not always a sale, questioning the sale.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, it's awesome. You know, I think when people buy or sell, but buying it, what I mean by buying is that they're buying your service, what they're really doing is they're buying their own future, right, they have a picture of the future that they would like to achieve. And they're deciding that you're a part of that, right, or you're a gateway to that future. Right? If you are just selling a transaction, if it's just about, okay, we got to just use me for this listing service, then it's not about their future, right. And it becomes, I could see how it could become, there's a tension there, and maybe they end up yanking the deal at the 11th hour, because all of a sudden, they the seller is like you know what, just not feeling it. Like I really appreciate the work you've done, I'm just gonna put just pull the deal off the market for now. And we'll revisit this next year to unearth those concerns, helps them see you as part of their future. Because these are these are questions that are going on in their mind. It's conversations that are already going on in their mind, even if they haven't vocalize them. So I think probably you putting yourself in their head and thinking about their future from their perspective that allows them to open the door more easily to you.
Aaron Jungreis:Right? Yeah. Yeah, you have a good understanding of it more than you do.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Thank you. It also helps in terms of a salespersons future, you know, a lot of sales guys think about, they're not thinking about a transaction in terms of their own future. They're thinking about it as far as just a commission. You know, what do you decide that? It doesn't sound like you're planning on retiring? You know, ever, you know, I'm not planning on retiring, no planning on living till 150. So I've got a lot of years to go. There's, if you if you think about how building long term relationships, you're having 25 year of relationships, and your goal is how do I start a relationship or continue a relationship with this individual that can last 25 years? You recognize that you can't be doing something that's just in your best interest and not theirs? That's not a good recipe for a long term marriage?
Aaron Jungreis:Right? It's true.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. So we've got a couple minutes left. I'd love to hear you know, we're in now beginning as of November 2021. On the hopefully the tail end of COVID. What are you seeing in the market on the in the multifamily sector? In New York? Is it you know, we're seeing record breaking cap rates and pricing in lots of the country. Are you seeing the same in in New York? Is there more hesitation?
Aaron Jungreis:I think there's more hesitation in New York than in the other states. But I think New York over the last six months has come back tremendously. There's a lot more interest now than there was last year. But there are a set of laws that are making it difficult still, for buyers to really plunge into that pool. So there are some guys who are doing it. But you know, most most people are cautious. But look, New York has definitely back rents, rents are back for sure. People are people are eating at restaurants, people are going to shows and it's it's slow. I think it'll the tourism part I think is still way behind. But you know, people are students are back and jobs are back and a lot of office workers are coming back, which is good. But, um, you know, I still think we have a ways to go in New York.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I've been to Broadway shows since they're there, they've opened back up and it's full capacity. I mean, you have to wear a mask by and be and be vaccinated, but it's seems like things are opening up, I guess. Are you seeing more in non rent stabilized? Is it is market rate recovering more rapidly?
Aaron Jungreis:Yeah, we're still selling rent stabilized but it's easier to sell non rent stabilized much easier.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. Yeah. So for if you're a buyer, any any kind of macro trends that you're seeing in terms of what buyers are looking for these days, where do they where is there, you know, if you're an owner of multifamily and New York Metro, what should you be thinking about selling? What should you be thinking about holding on to for the time being?
Aaron Jungreis:Well, look, i you're, if you're actually th nking about selling, and you h ve a lot of stabilized units, think that would probably be th best thing to do. Because I d n't know if this law is going t change for a while. And if y u have free market properties, I think you should probably hol as long as possible. And I hink on the flip side, if you' e buying in and you can buy so ething that has many free m rkets, that doesn't mean you s ouldn't buy the ones that hav stabilized just your price should be a better price. But t e health of New York is very s rong. And I think that's the one thing, most people realize t at that New York came back and I shouldn't worry about, y u know, the economy here. You hould worry about the rent laws, but not the actual econom and what's driving it. And, yo know, will it come back becau e it's back already, it's coming back stronger. And I th nk with the new mayor, esp cially Eric Adams, I think ther's a better future than the ast year, I thought the Blasio wasn't, you know, great, especia ly the last couple years, I thou ht he let a lot of things go as ar as crime and homelessness, tc. Whereas we have, you know, Eric Adams, who's an ex cop com ng in clean slate, and I t ink there's reason to be optimis ic. So even in New York, where some people are fleeing and buy ng in other states, there's stil a home for a long te
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, at the beginning of COVID, you know, month into it, people were s ying, Oh, it the whole world s gonna be remote, you know, n person isn't going to be as ecessary, like the city is goi g to, you know, it's going o be dead. People can just g out to the suburbs. And I thin what we've seen a year and a alf later that no people actual y really need to be around other people. They crave the so ial interactions. And so right estaurants are like, never usier. You know, the I went t, I mentioned before I went t basketball game. Yeah. The la t week, it was a packed house. Yes, people are hungry for th se kinds of interest rates. Yeah. Well, Aaron, I really appreciate all your time. This w s this was great, really enligh ening. And the focus on empath is just a Yeah, it's not only a effective strategy, but it fee s like it's like God's work t like, just empathize with s meone and be with them, you kn w, in that in that moment so right, from the Jewish press, to King of of multif mily, and in New York, and no, and now across the nation So congratulations on all yo r success and really apprec ate your time.
Aaron Jungreis:Thank you. I have to tell you, honestly, you're a great interviewer because you let your people speak and you have to have great questions. So we had zero prep, I have to tell you were fantastic. Truly.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Thank you appreciate. I'm not good at most things but interviewing is sometimes some ability with but thank you for saying that. You're welcome. Thank you so much. Have a good night and good luck returning the rest of your 20 calls for the day.
Aaron Jungreis:Take care. Bye.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Take care. Bye