Origination
Join us as we delve into the world of multifamily and commercial real estate, engaging in insightful interviews with industry-leading loan originators and salespeople. Discover the secrets that set apart these top performers from the competition as we uncover the strategies and skills that drive their success.
Origination
Episode 29: Lisa Fischman, The Power of Language in Origination
It's truly amazing how people can take their early career experiences and apply them to sales in our industry. Lisa Fischman is a remarkable originator who got her start in marketing and branding. In this interview, she also delivers one of the craziest customer service stories I've ever heard.
TIMESTAMPS:
2:05-12:20 Early Sales Experience
12:28-30:35 Transition into Real Estate
33:00-36:45 Balancing the Process
37:12 - 42:47 Broker and Lender Position
42:47 -48:44 Staying Involved in the Process
49:36 -54:30 Current Market Trends
lenders, market, people, loan, client, equity, selling, deals, screen protectors, year, calls, rates, business, borrower, easy, long, sales, chase, interest rates, debt
Hey, it's Mordecai. And welcome back to the Origination podcast, where we interview the top originators and salespeople in the commercial real estate industry to try to understand what separates the top performers from the rest of the pack. On this episode, I'll be speaking with Lisa Fishman. Lisa is one of the top originators at Greystone. You know, it's really amazing to me how people take their experiences from early in their career and apply them to sales in our industry. We talk a lot with Lisa about how she got her start in marketing and branding, and how she learned the power of words and packaging, and making a sale. You'll also hear one of the craziest customer service stories I've ever heard. I think you'll really enjoy this conversation. I certainly did. So without further ado, let's speak to Lisa. The one and only Lisa Fishman. Welcome to the origination podcast, it's great to have you.
Lisa Fischman:Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. And it's my pleasure to be here.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Awesome. So I'll start with the, with a question that I asked most people at the beginning, which is, you know, if you think about early sales experience, the earliest time you remember selling anything, you know, and it could be in your current job, it could be, it could be grade school, or high school or college. What comes to mind for you.
Lisa Fischman:I don't know if this is I guess this is the closest I ever came to selling something that I can recall. While there was always the the elementary school chocolate sales for the price which, which I never felt very comfortable doing that I always felt that if people if they want a chocolate, they would just go to the supermarket and get it. But I did I did my part. And there you have that, you know all those great gifts that you try to achieve. But I think prior to that, the only selling I did as a kid that was meaningful to me, was very young, maybe it was about six, possibly younger, a little older. And I was enamored by the Jerry Lewis telethon over Labor Day weekend, which I guess that that's aging me. I just thought it was incredible that this this performer would be willing to give up 24 hours of of his life and preparing for it and just be on television for 24 hours trying to raise money for Muscular Dystrophy. And that just in my small young mind at the time was was so so impressed, then. I remember convincing my older brother to go with me to go door to door to ask for donation for the telethon. And it just I think it was the first time I was ever passionate about something of grants. I was very young but and there was one. The one thing I remember was he let me go to one house by myself. He went to one house, I went to another otherwise we went to every every house together. And I did it on my own. And I walked away thinking I think I said the wrong disease. I don't think I said muscular dystrophy. And I may have said something else. And I just remember thinking oh my goodness, did I say the right and they had given me some money and neither did I say the wrong the wrong medical condition. And that just shocked me was like, oh, no, Have I done something awful. But the the donation was received nonetheless. But that was the I guess that's the first sales experience memory that I have, other than just life in general always selling yourself or or presenting a situation to, to manage a situation.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, I can imagine, you know, your mind at six thing like, like, oh, no, I think there's important cancer research. It's actually muscular dystrophy.
Lisa Fischman:Right, right. And there was another It was another multi syllabic condition. That sounded like but it wasn't I don't think because I think we went to the next house and my brothers had muscular dystrophy and I said, I don't think those are the words that just came out of my mouth. So yeah, Can I go back and replay?
Mordecai Rosenberg:yeah, that's Yeah, but But you did it. And I mean, to have the courage as a six year old to go door to door. I mean, that's pretty incredible. Yeah, I remember selling those chocolates also as a kid. And it was just like, painful beyond like, I just I remember finally I went like to maybe two neighbors, and I sold to them. But I like couldn't go beyond that. Like, it just was so uncomfortable for me, you know, so. And when I started selling, I mean, to learn how to make cold calls. I, you know, thankfully I've worked you know, I had a very good mentor Elliot, our Bakker was at Greystone and taught me, but it was really painful and uncomfortable at the beginning. So to be a six year old enough to be comfortable walking up to a stranger's door and asking for something that's, I mean, that's very impressive.
Lisa Fischman:It was it was the, it was built up from the passion from what I saw on television, and just seeing Of course, even as a child, you see another child who is not well, that, that is the that's the the impetus, that's the trigger, which, which parlays itself into what I do now. And, and what got me past the cold calling anxiety is the idea that sometimes the people you call are not even familiar with the product. And it's not so much selling as much as, and I don't know if I can say this, I just want you to have the option on your desk when you make a decision. Because you you own this asset, and you whether it's refinance, or whether it's an acquisition or whatever it's construction, know your options. And knowledge is power. So having having all of the financing options in front of you. I'm not here to sell you on it, but I want you to have it in your Rolodex, financing options.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, that's a really great point. So so your your focus area has been, you know, FHA is as far as products. Now, how did that start your first, you know, day on the job, first few months on the job, like, it's, you talk about tough things to cold call about, you know, like, what was it cold calling how, what was your onramp? Industry,
Lisa Fischman:my onramp, probably is different than everyone else in the industry. I have. My, this is maybe career number three, pivot number three, for me. So, my, passion getting out of school was in marketing, and advertising and spent many years at J. Walter Thompson. Now JW T Wunderman. So I guess in a way, you know, I was doing advertising, which is selling, but it's really not. It's more just presenting information and altering a consumers perception of something you can never, you can't really go on television and say, buy this, you must buy this, because people won't you know, it's if you say this is, you know, this is good, if people aren't going to be convinced to that, but if you alter their perception of a product, they'll say, oh, that sounds interesting. So so that was my my first career and then I hit pause. Because I chose to make raising my children. My career, so to speak, for many years, and I worked from home, doing medical billing, which I was able to do from a home office. So that was great. And then this presented itself in the most odd way. Somebody who was working at Greyston was looking for someone to just do the research and put together call lists and to set up meetings. And they were looking for someone part time and at the time, I was looking for something full time out of the house. And I said make it full time and we should have a conversation. And one thing led to another and I was offered the position. So for the first several years at Greystone, I was really in the support position to create call lists and set up meetings. And as a result, I had I guess, a great opportunity to absorb and learn while working full time, it's something that was not challenging for me, but was interesting. So I learned FHA as I moved forward, but it's so different when you put the coat on and you actually become the originator. And you're actually having the meetings and I think I was thrown into that unexpectedly. At a NIC conference in Boca, with about two weeks notice that I was going to be going, you're now a junior originator go forth. And that was the quite the quite the experience.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. So I'm going to come back to the NIC conference then. But I want to just go back to the advertising and marketing at a college. So you said that that's you're passionate about that, coming out of school. So were you were you a marketing major in college?
Lisa Fischman:I was actually a journalism major. So writing, communicating was, was really the core of that program. I did take some marketing courses. I wanted to pursue either public relations or advertising. And at that time, it was really a question of, where are you getting interviews? And who is going to offer you a position and being in New York certainly made it easier because you have so many large firms here in the city. I'm more competitive, but certainly more opportunities.
Mordecai Rosenberg:So when what did you love about marketing?
Lisa Fischman:I loved everything. But though, the one thing I'll say to anyone who's listening. It's not like in the movies. The movies are great. And they're and they're so much fun to watch. But similar to similar to a HUD application, you can work on a on a campaign for about nine months to a year, before you even give it to the creative team. So before the creative team, six months to a year, I'd say depending on what the product is, if it's a new product launch, I was an account management. So I was, I guess, similar in the origination role where you were, I was an account executive in charge of all aspects, whether the media buys the research, the creative team. And you had to create a document that was succinct, and accurate, to provide the creative team with the direction of what was trying to be achieved through their creativity. And we worked very hard with the client, even one of my clients was Pepsi, and even the position of where you put the word, you know, delicious, or thirst quenching, where you put it in the series of adjectives to describe the product, determined you were measuring the priority of each of those adjectives. And that impact did a really good creative team, the copywriter, and the producers and all where you put that adjective really impacted the results that you got for the campaign options. And then you went to reports and things like that. So I learned early on in that career and in life, the focus of the words you use and how you choose them, and when you say them, has a tremendous impact on on the key response you're trying to achieve. And so I have found that you no matter what industry you're in, communication is as critical. You always want to get just right.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, that's fascinating. Can you give me an example, anything that comes to mind as far as, you know, the focus on particular words or word order, or, you know, where they saw that kind of an impact or what that impact was? I don't know if anything comes to mind. offhand.
Lisa Fischman:I'm running all the campaign's through my head.
Mordecai Rosenberg:If not, that's okay. We can we can come back to it or move on.
Lisa Fischman:I guess, one of the last I worked with Kodak actually, we worked with Bill Cosby on that campaign. But the last campaign was for Lubriderm. And, and from the work that I did actually the CLA the app, see you later alligator campaign came from that and we've done a campaign prior to that, but the See you later alligator lasted a very long time. And it was I think the simply putting dermatologist tested and the end was very important to them. And that seemed to be a major trigger to the consumer and nothing was done in a vacuum. We we had we went around the country interviewing people and finding out what was what spoke to them having the focus groups so nothing really happened just in the conference room with a client because the client understood the sophisticated clients understood. They know their product, but they only see it myopically as their product. What do people how do they see it? How do they see that everything from what the packaging looks like and Lubriderm was really one of the first products that that was a high end moisturizer, outside of you know, that was sold at a supermarket, when you wanted the high end products, you would go to a specialty store. And that really opened the door to many other high end expensive products that are available in local grocery store. So to that end, having it be dermatologist tested, justified the price point, and also the results of how how effective it was. And it's funny, because in advertising, a lot of people know about the kleos, which is a very well known award ceremony. It's used to be televised. But there was another word called the FES. And those were based purely on industry success, literally the effectiveness of the campaign, not only was it the funniest of the coolest commercial, but did it actually drive sales, did it actually alter the test the product, and it was proud to have received both a gold and a silver on to the command campaigns I worked on, and that you can have a great commercial, and you can apply this to finance also you can have a great presentation. But if you can't be effective in your communication, you're not going to have the long term relationship, you know, could just be that that one off, and then you may lose the client. So it's important to me, I guess it's always been important to me to to establish a relationship that will be hopefully a long term one. Yeah, successful for my client.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yet, and you've certainly done that. I think this whole idea of marketing and word choice and thinking about how it will feel to the customer to read those words, or hear those words, or how or see or feel the packaging. I feel like in our industry, I feel like we do a lot from the conference room, you know, we'll come up with marketing campaigns, like from the, you know, from the conference room, quote, unquote, right? And then we put it out there and say, you know, oh, look at this, you know, put out this press release, like we close this loan, you know, $25 million loan, Fannie Mae or FHA. Right, and the Collaborate we are right, and or we put there other campaigns, you know, they all look to me that a lot of the lender campaigns look the same. It's always like, you know, we're a partner, not your lender, like, okay, great, you know, or capital solutions for commercial real estate owners like, something like that. But it's like, but, you know, that idea of, well, Are there words that you could use that would espouse confidence and trust? You know, I don't know that we do that as much.
Lisa Fischman:I, it's a fine line, we have an incredible marketing department. And the one thing I learned at JWT was, you don't tell creative what to do, and they don't tell you what to do. So I know my place and the marketing group knows I have I have a background in it. So they let me edit and take a look at some of the the releases from my deals. But I think you're right, there is a there was a certain sense of you know, you can turn the pages through our industry press. And does anything, does any ad really jump out at you? Or do they all look the same? And this is something that again, is a throwback to my to my advertising world. I personally, what would speak to me and this is where you really need to go to clients and say, Well, what speak to you but sometimes they don't. They don't know the answers. Sometimes you need to ask the questions of them in the right way to get the feedback you're looking for personally, what would speak to me is those testimonials or the that instead of saying where your cap, you know where your partner, the fact that I literally circled the country in 36 hours to save my client a penalty that they really weren't responsible for. Drove up to an island at eight o'clock at night was on a plane to Washington DC the next morning to drop it off at the lawyer's office. Then I went to then Warrenton got their package. They met me at a CVS was a dumb thing that made a CVS around 10 o'clock at night, I flew out to Minneapolis, at six in the morning the next day to deliver it to, to our investor to make the deadline. And I did it because at one of the last legal meetings we had before closing, I said, What guarantees do we have that FedEx overnight is going to be FedEx overnight, and this was last December. And nobody on the call. You heard crickets? Nobody said, guaranteed we'll get it. And the clients attorney in Rhode Island, an older gentleman, he said, Well, there's no way it's leaving this office today, because our FedEx pickup is a four o'clock in the afternoon. And has didn't finish closing
until around 5:30/6 o'clock. So I hauled myself up to Rhode Island, I said, Would you stay in the office and let me get it and this way, I'll have it, it will get to Washington DC. Because it as it was Leslie was doing us a huge favor to compress the time from closing to delivery. So she was already going out of her way, at holiday time to do everything she could but even then she said I can't guarantee that they'll get it in time. So we just kept carving time off a situation like that. That if I read that, an abbreviated version of that, why I wanted to have as my lender that they they went above and beyond I've got a situation now. So the call I was on earlier with the Department of Labor and a HUD issue where HUD dropped the ball for 13 months. We've had new constructions done, we've gone to final endorsement. We've already done an IRR for the client, which is great. And the client says we're so grateful that you're still on these calls, trying to get this escrow released because we didn't do anything wrong. I just wanted to do good for them. So I'm not doing it. It's not like we're doing ads with situations like this. But I'm doing it because it's the right thing to do for the client. And this is what I think a servicer and a lender should do. That would speak in my opinion to certain clients, not to everybody. But I think that ad would jump out on page.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, yeah. In Brazil, it's an awesome story. That's, that's an amazing story. It's interesting that in general, when when someone is selling, or when at that point of sale, life is good. You know, it's it's, let's say even like, take a travel agent, right? When I booked that ticket? Everything is fine. Great. So what's the difference between one travel agent and another? It's like, you know, you can you get me the times and you get me the different airports or airline options. Right. And that's it. Right. But what happens when, at
11:30pm, my flight is canceled, and I'm stuck at the airport. And I don't know, you know, I and there's a line, you know, just for miles long and customer service. Right? And I don't know how to book, you know, the next flight tomorrow, like, are you going to be there for me then? Right? And if so, you know, and I, it's, that's probably something that people don't sell as much is like, Look, right now, right? Sitting sitting here today, we're at the NIC conference where the NMAC, it's like, yeah, there's 50 other lenders here. That Are you going to be saying the same words, right? But here's what's gonna happen, right, you're gonna choose one of us. And then three months from now, you're going to be getting ready to close a loan. And what happens when FedEx doesn't show up, you know, when they were supposed to. So let me tell you a story about what I did.
Lisa Fischman:And I it's funny, you said that use the travel analogy, because years ago, they will remain nameless, but there was a very large travel, company, national national brand. And they always took out full page ads with with great opportunities, you know, the go to the islands for $400 a day all inclusive, blah, blah. And it just seemed too good to be true. But they were always in business. They always had a storefront it was always busy. And I fell for it once. And that's exactly what happened. You you signed it up, you are happy, had the brochures look beautiful. And then we got to the hotel and it was under construction. There were delays at the airport. There was oh, there was a second flight which they hadn't mentioned to me It was just a mess. And I realized, sometimes taking the full page ad is because they're always trying to get new clients, because it's a one and done. Whereas I think with Greystone regardless of our position, certainly with FHA, I see us still more as the the EF Hutton. You know, it's like when EF Hutton talks, we don't, we don't scream from the rooftops so much. But when we do speak, when we have your attention, you're impressed with what we've done. And we feel comfortable coming into the house and working with us. But you're right. Well, I would love to take go to Nick and NMHC. I don't want to say anything. I call myself the cardboard cutout when we bring my clients with me and let them tell you what, what type of relationship you'll have. if that speaks to you, that's the type of lender I am there. There are as many different types of originators as there are flavors and flavors of ice cream. But you have to find the person that you will be comfortable with satisfying what you're looking for.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Right? Where would you say that comes from like that when you decided on that? Night? All right. I don't want my client to have to pay this penalty. I'm driving to Rhode Island, you know, or, you know, and then going to Virginia and then going to Minneapolis like, so is it from is it like compassion? Is it kind of resets of responsibility to execute? Or is it like where? Or is it madness? You know, what?
Lisa Fischman:Well, my flip answer was going to be middle child syndrome. But, but no, it really it was it was not even something I thought about. It was just that's just what you do. It's just the right thing to do. It's not even the right thing to do. It's the only thing to do. It was clearly it was clearly not the clients fault. And, there was no way I could tell them, hey, it's gonna be a 50 G / 60 G penalty, I'm really sorry. And I weighed the I weighed the cost of flying in a circling the country. And it was minimal compared to even trying to couch their pedal and just I couldn't, I couldn't it would have literally come out to you know, I have to cover that. I could not could not bring myself wonderful client brand new to the company. You know, they may not have a big portfolio. But actually I think this is their only their only asset. And maybe the son has some but there was no, there was no, here my options. And when I delivered it to the when I delivered it to the to the rep at the bank that was receiving it. He said to me, because I don't understand. What are you doing here? If you get it today, can you get it done by Wednesday? He said, Yes. So certainly I have everything else came in were prepped for us. That's what I'm doing here. There was. So I had my one hour in, in Minneapolis, the Uber driver?
Mordecai Rosenberg:Well, you know, I think you should use this podcast as your marketing material, you know, just carry the clip out of that story. But yeah, because because I think it's also telling that it was a client who didn't have it's not like they had a billion dollars more business to do that, where it's like, oh, if I don't do this, then then I'm not getting the next deal. Or they have this huge pipeline. It's like, no, they someone, they may have had one or two assets, but they signed up for this. You didn't think it was right for them to have to incur a penalty. That was not their fault for a material amount of money. And so you just it wasn't even a question for you.
Lisa Fischman:Yeah, yeah, I had a similar with a D for m, halfway through, I got a call from HUD, which was unexpected. He said, you're gonna get a notice that you're not happy about? Quite sure. I was surprised that the branch chief was even willing to call and tell me that and it was a rejection letter. He's and he said in his message to me, call me to discuss. And so I call him I said, I don't know check the dictionary rejection is there's no there's nothing to discuss. And it's no I think we can we can set up a time and discuss this. So I said, I'll be in your office Monday morning and this was a Friday. And Monday night was actually a holiday. That was a crazy day. But I was on a 6am flight. He said no, we can do it over the phone and I knew that this was going to be a sensitive conversation. Doing it over the phone. Not that I needed to not that I love to jump on a plane but I ended up being in his office first thing with him and the chief engineer. And more of the conversation happened with head nods, and just reading their body language than anything that could have been accomplished. On your phone call. And by time I left, they said no, reopen it, basically, you know, you've got two weeks to get us get us a new appraisal., We can do this if you if you do that. Yeah, it was it was a it was a real eggshell conversation. It could not have happened on a call.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. I think also the, you know, so fast forward to I don't know if the that first NIC conference, but in partly to, to today. I would think that the idea of just selling something, that trying to get someone to buy something that you do not know, where you don't know, if it's clearly in their best interest? I don't think that you're capable of doing that. You know, I think it's it's, so I liked how you presented it where your goal is just to make them available, make them aware of options that they may not know about. Right? And that's like, so how do you approach like a new call or new meeting meeting with a new prospect? What's your approach to that? That first interaction?
Lisa Fischman:So I, I do as much research as I can. If it's before a conference, I do, try to see if there are any articles written about the person, certainly check the website, although I've learned over the years that most, most clients will say, Oh, my goodness, that so needs to be updated. Very often, I'll be at the NIC conference talking health care. And I've since learned that it's always good to mention that we refinance and we finance multifamily, because more often than not, someone in the healthcare platform will say, Oh, really, I had no idea. I'd love to talk to you about that. Also, sometimes their websites share that. And then I can have that opening, because talking about multifamily at the NIC conferences is a great niche and initiative inside of a niche. And they love doing that. Like I had no idea. And then you at least have a point of difference after the whole conference. Oh, right, we spoke to that person about multifamily. So that's always that's always a nice twist. learning as much as I can, just so that I'll feel a) out of respect for the person I'm speaking to, to have justified their time, having spent some time learning about them, and b) knowing, having a better handle on what questions to ask. And I prefer the first call being more doing more listening than talking. Those that have some knowledge of HUD, or experience with HUD, I'll ask them, you know, what has their experiences has been like? Because if they're, if they're willing to talk to someone else, where where was there pain points have to be addressed. And I think that initial phone call is either sharing anecdotes, because learning about term sheets, it's very dry, you go to any speaker, any speaker that you walk out of any event, it's those anecdotes that stick with you forever. It's not the how many years was that? What was the interest rate? It's really more what did they do? How do they go outside the box? What did they do to help someone or how did they how do they handle a situation? And then those that are familiar with HUD but don't ever want to go near it, but are interested because there's that 1, 40 years post construction fully amortizing it draws them in. And then then it's a selling you know, it is a selling conversation on how we manage it and, how we don't. We're always at the we're always at the steering wheel, they're in the passenger seat, but we never walk out of the car. We're always there for them.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. So, as far as the like word choice, you know, like so. First of all, I mean, I think probably the best place to get to to assess a client response to particular
Lisa Fischman:Get them across the finish line. words is sitting across from them, is let me actually see their face when I see it when I say those words and see how they respond. Have you found that there are particular words that you can use that get a, you know, I don't know what the responses that you would be looking for, but more of like a Oh, yes, I get that, like I understand. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said every situation a little different, every client's little different. Some of them are learning about HUD for the first time, some of them have had variances, but bad ones. And, and some have just worked with other firms and are curious about Greystone, and some have only have only worked with banks. So it's really at the moment decision, to see what and I gotta say that a lot of it has to do with also where they're located. You know, the Midwest, clients are not the same as the southeast clients and the Southwest. And, and I can often tell when I'm talking, I was talking to someone in the southwest a couple of years ago, and I'm still working with him. And, and I said, you know, you've got a, you've got a real Midwestern perspective, it's very solid, very grounded. And he said, Actually, I'm from Michigan. And so I have found that throughout the country, there is a, there is a different way of addressing and speaking to them, and it's not putting on a different hat so much as mirroring what they're comfortable with, in our communication skills. So I don't think my message is different. I just think it's delivered a little differently. And just going back, to something you had said earlier that you'd never sell something you didn't think they they needed. I've often said if I had $1, for every cold call I've made where the last thought I leave them with is, okay, promise me, you're going to hang up the phone, you're going to call your lender, and you're going to say, Why haven't you told me about the IRR. And secondly, you've got 24 hours to get it done. Because there have been so many cold calls, and I love cold, cold, cold calling at this point. There's been so many times where the client says, I'm not looking for cash out. I'm not looking to extend the term I don't the places in great shape, I don't need any money for repairs, we're very cash strong. I would just love to be able to reduce my interest rate. I could, certainly sell them on a Easy A7. But if at any point, and even if at any point they even hear whispers It's beyond my grasp, but they haven't heard of the IRR. So to me, like the minute they hang up the phone of the day, after they sign the engagement letter, somebody's gonna say, Hey, I'm gonna throw you an IRR. And then I'll have I'll have to answer to that client. Why didn't you tell me about this? And their right. So I will often say Do me a favor, you never met me before, you're going to think I'm crazy for doing this. But I'm going to tell you what to do. I can't do an IRR only your existing can just get on the phone and say and they say well, you know, of course it didn't tell me about it, they're gonna save so much money by not telling us and now they're not the loan is sold, you know, they're they're not making money on your interest and your interest rate and your payments. But if they want to keep you as a customer, they should have minute that roll came out, they should have been evaluating their portfolio and said, Who do we call and keep track of who would benefit from this. It's called servicing. It's not a program. It's called service. And they're servicing your loan. This is part of servicing.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Right? We put the service and servicing that'd be that'd be a good campaign.
Lisa Fischman:That's actually means something.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, yeah. So it's you did sales industry in general, but and commercial real estate multifamily healthcare? It's predominantly male. Yeah, it's, the conferences are, you know, it's a lot more men than women. I never know. You never noticed. Yeah. You know, you don't see gender, you know, your color or gender. There. How? I would imagine that that's been challenging at at times, or how have you, how found that, you know, just kind of breaking into the industry? Yeah, as a woman.
Lisa Fischman:Great question. Back in grade school. I remember. It's funny. It hits me now. I remember. Teams being made up. touch football must have been sixth grade, seventh grade. And the captain of the team said all girls on defense, Lisa on offense. And even then, I'm like, What did you just say? Um, so maybe, you know, maybe that kind of set the stage, it's like, okay, you know, you're gonna be the fish out of water in, you know, in life? It could, it could work to my advantage, it could work to my disadvantage, does it? Often? Does it lean more towards disadvantage? Possibly? Am have I been mistaken? For an assistant? More than most men are? Yes. Have I been mistaken as them? During your person who, is really just tagging along? Yes. Have I lost business in some groups of people to someone who is literally right out of school, but it was a guy, and they really didn'tvknow a bit from an MIP Yes. But it's a big country. Yeah. And I've come to terms with that. And it's human nature to want to work with someone that in a way, it kind of mirrors who you are, or, your comfort zone. There are clients who do not believe that philosophy and really don't see that the gender specifically or the color, but rather what comes out of my mouth. And that's how they compare I had a client, a brand new client, to gentleman who had been in construction for many, many years. And, and their GC actually told them to talk to me, said I saw her at a concept meeting, she was amazing. And talk to her. And they they decided to pivot on their financing. At that point in their career, because they had heard the, how wonderful HUD is and what the v4 is, like challenges but and that was me. Brand new visit, met with me asked me I shared everything with them. They asked me a whole bunch of questions. About a month or two later, they called me and they said, We interviewed about half a dozen other lenders. You were the only one that answered all our questions. And, you know, the rest is history. The buildings built there, Dave love it. It was it was a great program worked very well for them. And I was thrilled that I can help them but it was up to them. And they did their they did their due diligence. Yeah. So if I had a magic wand, it would be great if I was just judged on on my presentation.
Mordecai Rosenberg:I think there probably is also the opportunity there to sell, like, transactions will a sale happens at the moment of the sale. So at that point, it's like, oh, who do I feel more kinship with or connection to or confidence in? You know, but that is, you know, that's really just the start, right? You get assigned applications like Okay, that's great. But now Now your work really starts you know, getting getting a deal done, especially with with with FHA, HUD. You know, if you ask someone, we were talking, before we started this conversation, Lisa, about Passover, and what it takes to prepare for Passover and all the cleaning, and you're turning over an entire house and scrubbing every last corner, and shopping with foods that only got to the supermarket like a week ago, you know, because they wouldn't put it out on the shelves before. And you have to shop in advance for 10 days. For it could be meals with 20/30 people that you're hosting. Right. So you say all right. Yeah, that's what it's like to to manage a HUD loan process. Right? It's like it's managing all these moving parts and trying to move move forward. So now who in your house would you want to have that responsibility? Right, the guy or the or the woman?
Lisa Fischman:It's so funny, because in spite of the beauty of the silver lining, there was no beauty at all, but there were still there have been some, thankfully you have to look for them. But there have been some silver linings to to the horrors of COVID and you really do have to look for them with a magnifying glass. But in business, I found that one I know one of the thin silver linings has been the, the men in, in corporate America and our industry in most industries have have a, different perspective and a slightly more. I've had an eye opening experience to the sensitivities of life. And I don't think before COVID, you would have had a CEO on a conference call while he's walking the dog. Yeah, or hearing children in the background. And it hasn't been that long that if somebody was on a call, and there were children in the background, everyone on the call would roll their eyes. And it they shouldn't have, they should never have. But they did. I never did I my line was always that's the most, that's the most beautiful background noise you could possibly have. I'd rather hear that than your phone's ringing, or people talking on the phone behind you if you can't, find an isolated space, because that's what that's what life is all about. It's the next generation, it's the legacy. So, you know, certainly don't want someone on a call that's necessarily distracted, I get that. But just hearing them in the background playing to me is you know, that is the most beautiful sound in the world. So you have, you have this scenario where you have corporate people who were typically suit and tie in in the office and shut out your personal life, suddenly, it's blurring with with life. And they're, they're seeing that there can be this, this combination. So that kind of segues to, I would love to say to a client, I will mommy your deal to the end. But I can't say it as a joke. I wouldn't say this joke, because it, it kind of loses a little bit of the shimmer when you say that to how important every single detail is. But having done the prep for this holiday having gotten my you know, helped my children through school and they did trim it, they did so much of it themselves. But the college application process, whatever it is, stopping listening, seeing who the ultimate client is, whether it's a college, whether it's a, whether it's a client, whether it's HUD and hearing and knowing what they need to hear, and then being able to position yourself to say that to them, is how you wear 20 hats at once and and get the job done and, and as much as a HUD an FHA 223. F is that juggling a 221 D for new construction. I usually my analogy is imagine having to cross a football field. Vertically. You're barefoot. And there are a couple of broken glass bottles along the way. Yeah, that's my trip. That's not my clients trip. That's not they are they are not doing that. That's but that's what we're doing. And we're gonna get them to the finish line, we're gonna get to the touchdown. But it is constantly juggling a massive amount of items and one impacts the other throughout the process. But we get them there. And that's, that's that's the magic.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. It reminds me of the analogy of they get someone who gets to the end of their life. Yeah, they die and they go up to heaven. And they they see, you know, footprints in the sand. And there's sometimes you've probably heard it right there sometimes that they're that they're two sets of foot footprints. And sometimes there are one set, and person says, oh, yeah, that was a time when God was with me was when there there are two sets of footprints. And then when they're one it's like, that's when God abandoned me. And I was on my own. And God responds, No, you know, when, you know, when things were tough, that's when I carried you on my back. You know? So it's like with the football field analogy, it's like, yeah, there's glass on the field. And it will be partners, except that when we get to the glass, I'm putting you on my back. So you don't have to step on it.
Lisa Fischman:Yes, and and because of our pipeline, we we see it before we we step on it. So I think our skill what sets us apart very often is that and I say we I really mean the underwriters and the analysts because they're brilliant. They really are that the magic there they have those weekly calls. They have so much experience and expertise that they see the writing on the wall before HUD even writes it on the wall. So they will and I just had this with another concept meeting where the underwriter said this is what we enter to pay, they're going to say we need to be prepared with answers. And we came up with a great solution. And, and that's and it was a, it was a subtle thing that you really, really didn't, you wouldn't have thought of it had you not had those years and years of experience. And so I think that's a huge benefit to our clients is being able to say, and I think saying we're number one is, like you said those ads that say were the best for the car. But number one, meaning we have so much experience and we collectively share the experiences that not a new experience necessarily for for us when it happens. So and So sitting next to me had that or or someone in one office or another within Greystone, and we've shared it on the calls, and we shared when we're together at all hands, something like that. So I think that's really a huge selling point in my mind, because it means you're going to catch you're going to, if you don't anticipate it, if you anticipate it, you'll be prepared. And if you don't anticipate it, and it comes out of nowhere, you're gonna sit down say, Okay, how do we solve this problem?
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. I like that. What do you know, you have such a I think insightful perspective on on people and and the business. You know, if you, I'm curious if there's anything that you see that a lot of salespeople originators, do and kind of get wrong, so if I asked, you know, a lot of you many salespeople do X, but really they should do Y, yeah, anything come come to mind, common common mistakes that you see people make?
Lisa Fischman:The Well, what works for me doesn't necessarily work for someone else. So so they may have an approach that I I would never be comfortable with? And if it works for them. Great. But in general, to answer your question, it's a good question. I think the anxiety of talking to a new client sometimes makes you for, get to listen to them. And, and you're so set on your script of what you're trying to do. Whether it's selling a program, or whether focusing on on a particular asset that caught your eye, you're not hearing the little clues in the clients conversation that could be directing you to a much better answer or a much better presentation. So I think, I think just listening at not hearing but but really listening to what they're saying. You know, and I see this sometimes, the originators can always benefit from, we can always benefit from a little more polished, the more we hear, the more we see. And sometimes hearing your own presentation back, you'll learn Oh, I said that, or I shouldn't have or I that would have been an opportunity to discuss something else. But I think that applies to everybody that we bring to a call, whether it's the underwriter, the analyst or the project manager. For some of them, it's natural, they're very comfortable with that environment. But I like bringing them to the call because they're brilliant. But they're not necessarily the best at interacting with the client. So I think having your team be a little bit more polished. And that's a sensitive path. Because it's not what they're saying that's wrong. It's how they're presenting it. So that would be something that for both originators and underwriters, you know, everyone in the whole package would be nice to have a little bit more polish if we could and listening to the client. Just listening.
Mordecai Rosenberg:I recently heard an interview of Larry King. Yeah, this is someone interviewing Larry King. So you Larry King did 1000s of doubt maybe? I don't know. 100,000? Who the heck knows how many interviews he did in his career? He died?
Lisa Fischman:Probably I know. I know. I know.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah. Probably Probably up there still interviewing god. Yeah. Tell me about this. But he said something which was just incredible to me. He said that he never brought notes to an interview. He never had a list of questions. Like he may have probably had some thoughts about like, Oh, here's some things I want to talk about. But he said that he always wanted to be in the moment with the person he was interviewing. Right. And he never knew where the conversation was gonna go. And that was comfortable living on the edge, and just seeing where the conversation would go. But he felt that if he was reading off of a script or list of questions, then it would take him out of At the moment, you know, I don't have Larry King's confidence. So I have a number of questions before podcasts that I'll kind of look through and I'll circle the ones that I think are going to be most relevant. That being said, I view those questions as just guideposts if I get lost, you know, if I have to kind of pull the, you know, if I don't know where to go with the conversation, you know, be like, Okay, I can look at these and say, Alright, that'll hold me back. But it's that idea of coming into a conversation with a client, and really just wanting to understand them, and picking up on the subtleties, right? How do you how do you pick up on body language, if you're busy trying to sell what you have to sell?
Lisa Fischman:Correct. And, and to your point, when I see an interview, and the moderator looks down at their paper for the next question, the person answering gets a glimpse of that. It throws them off, because, which then they lose the interview. So Larry King's interviews were probably elevated and more brilliant, because he never dropped eye contact. It was always it was a pure conversation. And, and when I feel that you're talking to me, and I, first, be honest with you, you're interviewing me as if there was nothing in front of you. So this is very comfortable and great. But I think the whole interview is elevated, when each party is really listening, I want to I'll see on the stage where the moderator will just ask a brilliant question, and the person is answering, but then the moderator is like, I'm not even listening to you. I'm looking at the next question I have to ask it's disappointing if the audience catches it, I hope you know, I hope I'm the only one that sees something like that, but and then the person speaking feels like, granted, there were 1000 people in the audience, but I feel like I'm talking to you, and you're not even listening to me. And so you're going to trail off, you're not going to really finish your thought.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, they say that. Bill Clinton, I never met Bill Clinton in person, but, you know, he, people would meet him and they would start crying. Because they said he had this amazing ability to look at you, and make you feel like no one else in the world existed. You know, and so, even though it was just a 10, second shake your hand, like looking in the eyes, like, that made an impact forever, you know, and in sales, like if you can make someone feel like you're in it lots of times, like, it's just the two of you in the room, or on a call. But if you can make them feel like they are the only person that exists for you. And that what that means is that you're not trying to sell, it's not about me getting out the words that I want to say to you, It's about listening and responding. And maybe there's a solution that I can provide. That's good. And maybe I can give you some advice, Or maybe, you know, this is just being nice conversation with nice people. But probably part of what you're saying is also this is very hard for a salesperson, but can you go into a meeting without a preconceived notion of how you want it to end? Ideally, is you want them to say, Oh, wow, FHA, that's great. Where do I sign? But the conversation could go in lots of different directions and being open to how that can go? What do you think?
Lisa Fischman:So you've got the key response that you want them to give you? But it doesn't, it doesn't always happen after the first meeting. Unfortunately, we're not selling Barton's, we're, we're selling. We're selling the lending of a lot of money, you know, millions and millions of dollars. And that's why I'll often want to talk to people before they need financing. And sometimes when I'll have a cold call, they'll say, Well, you know, everything's all put to bed. I don't need financing right now. I said, that's actually, this is the best time for me to talk to you. I don't when you need money. You're not going to call me you don't know me. So I wouldn't want to call some get a cold call and say, Sure, I need$20 million. Can I trust you? I understand you don't need anything right now. I would like to learn more about your business so that I'll know when I can follow up with you. I can send you articles that I may come across that that are helpful to you. And when I'm in town, I'd love to meet you and take you a cup of coffee or something to eat or something like At that, and then over time, and and I'm not I'm not trying to build a fake relationship, I'm trying to build a real relationship, I may end up being able to help them financially. But if, but that won't happen when they need the money the moment they need the money. So walking into a new meeting, unless there is something on their table in their portfolio, getting that key responsive, okay, where do I sign in? That has happened, But more often than not, it's more just, I'm in your zip code. I just wanted to stop that and say, hello. You know, and some people have applauded me for being a pit bull. As soon as I have some business, we're gonna we're gonna talk. It's like, okay, I'm gonna take that as a compliment.
Mordecai Rosenberg:Yeah, well, I think they probably mean it as a compliment. But at least I really appreciate you coming. I know, you're incredibly busy preparing for that for the holiday and took out a precious time to spend with me. So but this has been really, really enjoyable. I came up with lots of things to think about about word choice, and packaging. And interviewing, you know, so a lot, you know, again, a lot, so. So thank you.
Lisa Fischman:It's been an absolute pleasure. This is easier than talking to HUD. You were right.
Mordecai Rosenberg:I told you. I told you it'd be the easiest part of your day. Was I right?
Lisa Fischman:Yes, this is wonderful. It's really big catching up with you.
Mordecai Rosenberg:All right, likewise. Alrigh, Lisa. I will talk to you soon. All right. Take care. Bye.