Episode 27: Marvin Jeremias, Founder of Crossmark Capital

Mordecai interviews Marvin Jeremias in the wake of his newly launched Crossmark Capital. Before embarking on this new venture, Marvin was one of the most tenacious and focused top salespeople at Meridian. In addition to being that rare person who loves cold calling, he is an educated and respected advisor to his clients.

Contact:
Marvin Jeremias
marvin@crossmarkcapital.com
917-312-0931

TIMESTAMPS: 

2:05-12:20 Early Sales Experience 

12:28-30:35 Transition into Real Estate

33:00-36:45 Balancing the process 

37:12 - 42:47 Broker and Lender Position 

42:47 -48:44 Staying involved in the process 

49:36 -54:30 Current Market trend 

lenders, market, people, loan, client, equity, selling, deals, screen protectors, year, calls, rates, business, borrower, easy, long, sales, chase, interest rates, debt

Transcript

Mordecai Rosenberg: 0:16

Welcome back to the Origination podcast where we interview the top originators and salespeople in the multifamily and commercial real estate industries to try to understand what separates the top performers from the rest of the pack. On this episode, I'll be speaking with Marvin Jeremias, founder of the newly launched Crossmark capital. Before launching Crossmark, Marvin was one of the top salespeople at Meridian. There are salespeople who are tenacious and focus go getters. There are others who are patient advisors. But the combination of the two is not as easy to find. Marvin just defines tenacity, you'll hear about how he started his career making 150 calls a day for months on end, and even signed up his first deal on the very first week of his job at Meridian. But he also recognized that to be the best advisor to his clients, he had to keep perspective and know what was going on in all parts of the industry and made a science out of educating himself on what was happening so he could give the best advice to his clients. I think you'll really enjoy this conversation. I want to congratulate Marvin on crossmark capital and I'm sure it'll be an amazing success. Without further ado, let's talk to Marvin. We have the legendary Marvin Jeremias. Marvin, it's great to have you on the origination podcast. Welcome.

Marvin Jeremias: 2:01

Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 2:05

I know you're fresh. Well, I guess a week fresh off the boat from world travels. So glad you made it back on. All right. You've had some pretty amazing adventures. So Marvin, I want to start by with the question that I usually start with, which is when you think about early sales experience. Now your earliest time that you remember selling something, it could be when you were in grade school or high school or post anything come to mind in particular.

Marvin Jeremias: 2:36

So interestingly enough, you know, as I wasn't always the guy who sold. You always hear people who had a, you know, hotdog cart or sold things in school and things like that, I actually never really did that. But my earliest sales experience, interestingly enough, was when I was probably a little kid. During the holiday period, I used to sell a slogan and actually started out first I learned how to make the the rings that go around the love. And I would sell those, you know, there's like a set of four, I would sell them for like 50 cents, that was sort of where I started out. And then I graduated, up to having my own little sales table. I lived in Brooklyn and when you sell out on the avenue, that probably was my earliest sales experience. I probably forgot about it for a little while, but I guess he just asked me about it. And it did remind me that I did do that back in the day. But I did that for a couple years and that probably was my first sales experience. But I probably sort of shifted away from that for a little bit. I didn't really do much sort of during my teenage years in terms of, you know, sort of working. I was pretty laid back type of kid. So wasn't really super aggressive, you know, as a teenager on the business. And, my parents sort of thought I was probably a little bit lazy, to be candid. But, you know, in terms of real work experience on the sales side, prior to getting into real estate, I did start out a bit in the healthcare field. I worked in an adult daycare facility doing marketing, which sort of consisted of, you know, recruiting and bringing in participants to this adult daycare facility that was sort of my first gig, I guess, on the sales side. Totally different than what I do today. But I think it was a good baseline in terms of grinding and sort of figuring out how to pitch people and sort of get people to view your product and, you know, sort of listened to you. You know, it was a good sort of starting ground and then I went on from there where I moved over to a spot where they actually asked to start, the similar program, their own adult daycare program was sort of from the ground up. Got that rolling, where we got to, like 25 to 30 participants in about two months, but they shifted the business and had me work in their neighboring assisted living facility. I did that for about six or seven months or so. And then I got this opportunity to go, you know, sort of start in the commercial real estate world and jumped on that. And that's sort of where I've been for the last, quote, better 10 and a half years or so. So, yeah, that's sort of where I started from. So I did have a bit of really early sales experience, sort of toned that down for a while, and then, you know, so to where I am today.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 5:54

That's great. I'm curious to hear about the adult daycare marketing experience. Can you describe what that was? Like? How did you recruit residents or customers, clients, whatever you called them.

Marvin Jeremias: 6:12

We called them clients. So it was actually a little bit interesting, it was sort of do whatever you can. So in order to be eligible for that program, it was a Medicaid based program. So you really, for a senior citizen to be eligible for Medicaid, I think their annual, their monthly income couldn't be more than like,$350. So we were sort of talking about seniors who were somewhat disadvantaged, and then did they have health issues as well, they had to have certain ADLs that they were required and needed assistance. So I found myself, you know, in low income housing, buildings, nursing homes, people would get discharged and really sort of sifting through and it was, as much as you know, setting up programs in the buildings and reaching out to seniors who are somewhat lonely, and who needed help, and trying to get them to actually come to this facility. But then also you had to maintain those relationships with these people, because you only got reimbursed on days that they came. So it was a constant, you know, sort of maintenance of dealing with this client. And, it was really interpersonal relationships. And, you know, seniors can be a bit stubborn at times, and not necessarily stuck in their ways. And it was a matter of I do want to participate, and I don't, and it was just a lot of maintaining that. But it was interesting. I mean know when I'm in the real estate business, I find myself, you drive down the street, and you notice buildings, and you notice property, as you notice who owns them, and you notice sort of what's going on around you. Looking back, like when I would drive down the street, I would notice senior citizens, and like one second is this person, someone that would be eligible. And then there were times where I've jumped out of my car nearby the facility and approach them and say, maybe you can be a participant, would you be interested in this? So it was it was a little bit all over the place. It was a little, you know, organized events, but then it also was like anyone that would be appropriate, you know, is that someone that we can recruit to come to this facility? So it was definitely an interesting start. And it really taught me more of like, you got to do whatever it takes, and you're never too proud to go ahead and try to recruit or do what you have to do. I guess in that world to make a deal was to get somebody to sign up.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 8:55

So it was the it was the client themselves. It wasn't the client's family. That was the target.

Marvin Jeremias: 9:01

There were a lot of families, but unfortunately, within the demographic that was eligible, a lot of times it was people without families involved. So that sometimes it became the client themselves who wasn't really getting services at home or wasn't necessarily getting the meals that they need and realize they want to be somewhere and then there was the social aspect to it as well. But yeah, we had a group of people that, you know, did have family sign up and had them attend, but there were a lot of people who lived on their own. So it ended up sometimes being the seniors themselves. That's just the nature of the way that business was set up.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 9:41

So how did that go? So you meet? I know it's an elderly person, maybe it's in a nursing home or low income, you know, housing or on the street. You're in your 20s Then I guess, yeah. Right. So you're this young whippersnapper who shows up, and how do you, I would imagine that they wouldn't respond well to being sold, per se. So how did that go? What was your approach?

Marvin Jeremias: 10:13

Honestly, it's an experience, I totally try to forget. But well, again, we have marketing materials, and you try to give them some sort of familiarity, like, you may know, this so and so person that also comes to join our program, and you can ask him about it show them what goes on there, we bring them in sometimes for a day. We say, 'listen, this is what it's about, and it's something that, you know, would you be interested i?' We provide a transportation and we sort of made it a place where they got to spend five, six hours a day. And again, it was really not about, you know, there was no pressure situation, but at the end of the day, it was providing them a service that they technically needed. It was just a matter of getting them to come aboard and see it. And yes, sometimes you met with resistance, and then you sort of back off, and sometimes they'll call you back, and it's about leaving. And again, it was a lot of, you know, follow up and conversations. At that age, nobody makes a decision very quickly. So, it took a lot of time, but I think it gave me a lot of, you know, valuable life lessons in terms of how to interact with people. And, you know, again, I think in the mortgage business on your initial pitch and your initial bid nobody really wants to talk to you, or there's there isn't that element of them being comfortable with you. And it's about learning how to, you know, sort of build up that level of comfort and trust. I guess certain people have a, there is a certain skill set to it, but it's a, you know, you have to you have enough charm, or you know, personal skills, I think it's something you can cultivate in any field. And that's sort of a lot of what sales is, I think a lot of times it's not about products, it's really, you know, it's about building a relationship. It's about creating an element of comfort.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 12:20

So you move over to commercial real estate. And did you go straight to Meridian? Or was there?

Marvin Jeremias: 12:28

No, you know, sort of gave notice at the adult at the assisted living place. I gave a two week notice I finished there on a Friday and Monday morning, I was in Meridian capital. This is in 2011 the market was really just starting to, you know, come back. Interest rates were only a four and a half percent, which was exciting at the time. I was there. I guess I started on a Monday, they taught me how their database worked. Yeah. And I think on Tuesday, I was on the phone.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 13:10

How did that go? First because cold calling is just such a tough thing to start and to learn. How was the first call like?

Marvin Jeremias: 13:21

I actually love cold calling. I honestly, I have enough hours in my day, I would love to do it more, I developed a certain, you know, sort of way of how I did it. And I found that I was generally pretty successful. I mean, at the beginning, I was making about 150 calls a day. Yes, starting out. So I really pounded the phones. But I figured out certain sort of tricks in terms of how to do it. But it actually, I never really struggled with it. And I know, and being in the industry and seeing new people start out on the origination and sales side. And this is sort of one of their biggest challenges. They can't stand the cold calling and they have this fear of picking up the phone. It's something that almost came naturally to me. But, and maybe it was sort of I was able, you know, it could be I was lucky and I had success right away. But I think I had bought in my first deal within the week and I closed my first loan exactly three months to the day from when I walked into the door. So that I think helps. I guess you when you sort of taste some success, it gives you the fortitude to keep, you know pushing and moving forward. But the market was ripe for you know, everyone was looking to do a deal, I guess and I think the art of cold calling is you try to make it somewhat warm. I would do some sort of research prior to picking up, you know, sort of get some understanding of a client's portfolio where they own, who owns near them, take a look at what deals were done within that vicinity, that you're coming with a baseline of information where you don't have that telemarketer feel of like, just, you know, Hi, I'm so and so from so and so shop, give us an opportunity. When you do it that much, and that often, and you're spending hours a day on the phone, you sort of, develop some sort of routine, I guess. Cold calling is an art, and I think you get about 30 seconds of someone's time to either get them or, you know, to know that it's not gonna happen. But one of the things that I heard a lot during those years of making all those calls, which, I'm not sure was a compliment, but to me, it was a compliment, where someone told me call me back in a month, I would call him back in two days, and have another conversation. I've heard people either say, negatively or positively, you know, we appreciate your tenacity, or you're very tenacious, but to me, that was the ultimate compliment. That was like, you know, that means to me that you're doing the right thing here, and we keep on pushing and hounding, eventually, you'll get an opportunity. Either because they just want you to go away and say here, and then you get a chance to prove yourself, and you'll be it'll surprise somebody. Or if you get the opportunity, you don't execute, at least you got the opportunity. And you can, you know, keep on pushing on the phone. Yeah, that was a big part of my first couple years, I literally lived on the phone. And I figured out certain times of the day that really work. I think people who cold call, don't necessarily put in the hours needed. And I'd figured out that between four and eight in the afternoon, from four in the afternoon to eight in the evening, that would be my most, you know, successful call times. I would allocate those hours, like specifically just to sort of stay on the phone. You know, a lot of the times the gatekeepers are, there's the assistants, they're gone at five. One of the ways I always went about my business was never to, and even though it's easier, but I never chased the low hanging fruit. You know, in the mortgage business, the philosophy was, if somebody needed help to get a mortgage, they weren't a client that I was really willing to pursue, it was really somebody who has the ability to get their own loan, who has enough relationships, and it's really give me an opportunity to show you that I can do it better, faster, more efficient, more sophisticated. That was really who I targeted, but that type of clients, they're not leaving their office at five o'clock, and they'll be there till seven or eight in the evening. And they may have five to 10 minutes to sit on the phone, if they pick up and actually hear you out and actually, you know, talk shop, or actually get involved and throw a scenario or tell you this is coming up within my portfolio. I found that those hours were just crucial to developing a book of business where you get to talk to the right key person, when he has some time to actually spend a couple minutes with you. You can develop a rapport and a relationship and go from there and build on it.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 18:43

It's interesting, tenacious people, like other tenacious people. And the fact that you're calling from four to eight, so if you're reaching someone at seven or eight o'clock, and they're still in the office, they're also probably a tenacious person in you know, in some respects, so it's interesting that you were probably felt like, you know, 150 calls you didn't get through to everyone. Right, but those there probably was, I wonder if there's some self selecting as far as the people that were that were still around and picking up the phone, you know, at those hours, too.

Marvin Jeremias: 19:20

You may be right. And then I just sort of put him pegged it towards, you know, when you're running a company, you're busy, and you have to put in the time. So that's probably when they're there. Yeah, the guy who leaves at five o'clock, either he's, you know, even if they're super experienced and super successful, you have a lot to do. This business is not a nine to five and one of the keys that I was sort of tried to impress upon people is I'm not someone that you know, you can call it anytime I'm available at 11 o'clock at night and I still I get calls from clients literally till midnight. And, you know, make myself available. So that's sort of one of the keys once you develop that relationship, it's maintaining that availability and knowing that the accessibility is always there.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 20:19

Calling till midnight is. That's good service. That's definitely good service. So when you say, there must have been, I wonder if there were something that clicked. In that first week you said you figured it out? You figured some things out very quickly. So one of the things is time, I guess. What are some of the other things that you figured out, you know, that made it click for you.

Marvin Jeremias: 20:48

I'm not so sure that I figured out or it was some of the direction I got from some of the people I was learning from, but one of the messages that, and it's a message that I impart to people as well, you know, getting a loan done is not necessarily your primary function. So one of the things that I sort of focused on early on, is, you know, you're in the service business, and you're there as a consultant. What you need to become is an expert in the financing business in order to be successful, just nobody needs to pay anyone a significant fee to push paper, everyone can pay a low level data entry person to push paper. And what I guess I figured out or sort of focused on early on, was someone who's running a real estate company. Yeah, financing is a very key part of their business, it sort of helps them, you know, recapitalize their deals, and helps them acquire deals and helps them grow. But ultimately, they're also running acquisitions, they're also running, leasing, they're also doing construction, and they're managing their people with a host of 50 other things that are involved in running a real estate company. What they're coming to rely on their broker, or their consultant is for you to be the expert in that field and I took that sort of mission pretty seriously where. I would constantly be reading up on what's going on in the market, who's financing what deals, what lenders are doing what and really just to have information, and I became sort of an integral part of my clients business where I would get, you know, data and info on deals that they were just looking at, and sort of come to you with, what do you think about this, who's gonna finance that? What kind of leverage can we get here? Who are the lenders in this space? They come to rely on you to be that expert in the field. And that was sort of what I figured out early is, you got to really be in the weeds, and know what's going on, not even limited to the transactions, you're doing just as a market in general, so that you can be that expert in your field. And once you get that reputation then picking up business is relatively easy. Because ultimately, there's referrals, you have a certain name that you establish for yourself and you become an integral part of their business. And it's not just a matter of, you know, well, I'm going to get another five basis points, you're taking yourself out of that whole concept, where you're separating yourself, and you're creating another level above where your competition is. They may have access to a bank on 510 basis points, but my relationship is not about 510 basis points, it's about whatever you provide an expertise and a creativity, and you only get that from really, you know, studying your business and knowing sort of, and things evolve and things change, and you have to know we're lender appetite is at a particular moment, or if someone has a specific bucket to fill, and that's really, you know, it's not just about pushing and being aggressive and fighting for your client fighting for terms. It's really becoming that advisor, and really becoming an expert in your field. That's something where, aside from being tenacious, you really have to have something to back it up as well. So, between those things, I guess you can say in terms of figuring it out, I took that sort of mission pretty seriously and really just, you know, picked up any information I can. I was always listening, I was always learning. I used to sit in on other brokers calls and pick up certain things that a lender said and then find, you know, just ask questions as to why they're looking at it this way and understanding how banks bank and understanding what their credit policy is, and why they want certain enhancements. That always gives you the ability to now apply it to your deal and say, Okay, the reason why they're coming back with X y&z term is due to whatever credit concern they have, and then there's mitigations to that, and when you can structure it the right way. So it's really about becoming an expert in your field, I think it is really from the most crucial parts of it, where, you know, you develop that trust, and then, the business will sort of, you know, you'll be able to maintain it very well.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 25:44

That's really interesting. And it sounds like it wasn't like, you were just getting familiarity with the products, you actually were learning how to step inside the brain of the lender? Because it's not just oh, yeah, they gave you the finance that at 65%. You know, at this rate, it's, well, why did they finance it at 65%? Why wasn't it 60 Or, or 70, you know, and trying to, because that's how you can give the best advice to your clients, that really understanding the thinking behind the lenders

Marvin Jeremias: 26:18

100%. And I think as a broker, as a commercial mortgage broker, you have to understand you really don't have one client in the transaction, you really have two clients, and every single deal because you're a representative, you're wrapping the client and getting them alone, but you're also repping the bank ensuring that they're getting the right borrower that they're lending on the right real estate, that they aren't dealing with issues in three to five years from now. You have to develop that level of trust on the lender side as well to know, like, I'm repping, you here on this transaction, and some people make the mistake and they push too hard when they know they shouldn't be pushing. Then ultimately, when you create an issue for a lender, you just burn through relationship for every cent for your entire book. I think brokers have to understand as a true intermediary, you're really an intermediary for both sides, you really have to, you know, view the bank as your client as well and say, this is why you should stretch, because you're not going to have an issue here. Or if you think you are going to have an issue, maybe take the credit enhancement to protect yourself. Then your job is to work your client to sort of see the view and say, 'this is why you should give it and you need to perform on your business plan. If you're confident, then you should take this credit enhancement, and sign the document.' So you know, that sort of the role of a broker really is not just sort of, you know, generate and originate business, your fees do get paid on one side, but your business gets built by repping both sides. And it's interesting, you know, again, you mentioned, I just started my own company, but the name, the reason I chose it, it's called Crossmark Capital. The messaging really is, you know, the role of a broker is in the cross section of the deal, sort of where, like the X marks the spot where we're right there in the middle quarterbacking between the broker, the lender and the client, and sort of repping both sides. And and if you do it well, you'll be able to maintain relationships on both sides and provide value from both sides in every single deal. So yeah, that's sort of where some of the messaging of my company.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 28:52

I like it. I think every salesperson, you know, wants to be a hero to their client. Right? That'd be like, a great thing to be able to say is that, yeah, that I was a hero to them. And what I've realized over time, is that the way that you become a hero is by providing clarity and confidence. If you think about people who are heroes to you, it's you know, maybe it's, someone's your best high school basketball coach was a hero, right? It's not, because why were they a hero? It's not because the team had an undefeated season. It's because the coach taught them something, right, provided them clarity or confidence about their own ability and how to function as a team. Any borrower is approaching a lender. There's lots of times not a lot of clarity or confidence. I mean, you think about even the single family world with your with your house, you go to a bank, it should be totally straight like they should finance 80%. Then they send out an appraiser and they come back with different value. Yes. So the fact that you can, as you're coming up with marketing materials for Crossmark capital, which I'm sure will be successful, you have given all, you know, your reputation that you've built, but this idea of providing clarity and confidence, and by being able to step into the, like, how valuable would it be, if you could step into the lenders brain? Right, before you approach them, that to me is, is really, that's a great sales pitch.

Marvin Jeremias: 30:35

I definitely think you're 100% accurate with that, and I think, you know, some of the best compliments I've received in over the years or hearing feedback from clients or just a reputation on the street is, there's a couple of things. But the fact is, most people, you know, the reputation is the cop, there's confidence that the deal will get done. There's, there's a transparency aspect, where you're not really going to, you know, get thrown for a loop, and if there's an issue, it's sort of a pet peeve of mine where I think people in this business make the mistake that they hide things from their clients when there are problems in a deal. And I think the way I always go about it is I'm always 100% transparent, because every problem has a solution. And if you discuss it and work through it, there's always a workaround that's satisfactory to your client. And it's a matter of, if there's, again, like every negotiation, a little bit of give, and then the lender moves and everyone's happy. So ultimately, it's about being transparent, being accessible, and then being able to get creative to figure out a solution. I think that sort of speaks to knowing how lenders think, but I think my reputation that I've tried to build and hopefully, that's what it is, is that there is that level of confidence that the deal will get done. Like when when you start a process, they are not going to be you know, last hour show up at a retreat and the way to avoid that is the retreat only happens because there's something either that you hid, that you weren't transparent about that gets discovered, or there was an issue that you didn't work through early enough, and then you're stuck at the 11th hour with an issue. So a lot of the aspects of people not having confidence that it doesn't get done is if you don't tackle things upfront. It's just been a way I run my business today and continue to do it forward. That's how you build up that level of confidence that the execution will be there.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 33:00

So let's say, post sign up, that is very powerful to guarantee like certainty of execution. But you have a bank that you're working with, or some other lender, and you can't necessarily control their process. So how do you balance? How do you manage the clients experience through closing?

Marvin Jeremias: 33:29

So, again, that's sort of I guess, everyone falls into the patterns where you basically, you know, sort of shift to people you've done business with and lenders that you're comfortable with, but the way I sort of go about it is I'll sort of present a couple of options, right? And one of them may be significantly more aggressive. But if it's an experience, if it's a new lender for me that I haven't closed with in the past, you know, I'll be super transparent with the clients. And listen, this is looks like it's our best option. I don't know where the execution is gonna shake out, because it's a new process for me, you know, we should get to this spot based on the information and the underwriting that we gave them and they know everything that they should know about the deal. And you make it a borrower call, say listen, we can roll with this, do you have enough time to close? If it's a refinance, then you definitely, you're not under the gun and we go through that process, and then you develop that experience on the execution or they can make the decision. I may leave, you know, a little bit on the table in terms of x, y and z term, but I would rather focus on we need to execute, I have a tip, I'll pay another five basis points. I'll take a little bit less money for the known entity. And that's where your role as an advisor, you're presenting options. Ultimately, clients make decisions as to the direction they want to go. And sometimes it's with another broker. And I've advised clients say, Listen, you have a better deal from another broker, that's the better deal, that's where you have to go. But that's all part of developing that relationship. it's about having that communication and sometimes it's not about, you know, getting the largest fee or making a field together. I think that's part of it, you know, no relationship is about one deal. So in terms of when I have the experience with the lender, and I know how it plays out, and if I think I can manage it, I can impart that confidence. And if I don't, I tell them, I don't have that level of confidence. And you can make a quote, we can go through this together, know that if something changes, don't be surprised by it, and we'll shift and either we'll work out the issue, or we'll shift then we'll go to another lender if we have the ability to do that. So these are all part of having the right dialogue, and building up that level of trust. And I think people appreciate that. When you tell a client, go do a deal with somebody else called or directly with a lender, because you have a better deal. They know that you have their back, and that you're advising them to the best deal possible. And you'll do five deals down the road. So you can't guarantee the execution because again, is ultimately out of your control. But if you have enough of an experience to base it off, you can assume. And if you've been in similar situations, you know how to maneuver, you should be able to give your client the right advice.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 36:45

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So you've been an intermediary, like you said, that's been your career. You, anyone in this industry, have a choice, right? Someone could be a broker and could work for a direct lender. What do you see as the advantage is different disadvantages of either position.

Marvin Jeremias: 37:12

I like the intermediary and broker position. It gives you more flexibility. You're a free agent, you're not really beholden to one platform, you're not really beholden to one execution. The flip side is origination is much harder. You know, and it comes down to what your personality is. And again, even now that I am on my own, I did get, you know, pitched and offers from direct lenders to say, Sure, why would you like to come join our platform, and I just felt for me personally, it wasn't the right sort of fit. Because at the end of the day, when you're representing a client, and you're really in sort of living that client representation part of it when you're in a direct lender, you're sort of have your box that you're sort of stuck in, you have your products, your credit team has a certain view of how they want to go ahead and book their business. If it fits, it's great, because everyone likes to have a direct relationship with a lender, or, you know, you have a certain element of a balance sheet where we control the execution. There's a certain level of you can walk into some say, we're the one writing the check. On the flip side being on the on the intermediary side, you're really not limited. You can present five different solutions, and it's a matter of everyone's willing to pay if you can prove the value. So I've never really encountered that much resistance to here, we're going to give you an assignment, because I have enough tricks, I guess, in the bag to show them where the value is going to be. It's not going to be, you know, we're giving you one option, because this is the way what my platform can show you. And now you have to go to a second person to go show you something else. And that's just a brain drain. Sometimes for people, they like to work with one person who can, you know, sort of give them a menu of options and go from there. And, you know, that's just the way people are built people like options. Nobody likes to show the showed here, this is one way to do this. And this is how, you know, it's the best way for you, and maybe the best way for them. Right? And they may know it, but they still want to see option B and they make the choice and make the decision. Again, it's a personality thing as well. I mean, certain people are much better served for the direct, you know, work for a direct lender and, and again, there are opportunities on working for are a direct lender where you always consider you can go ahead and source business from other people, and your origination is a lot easier because you're just you have people bringing you deals as opposed to sourcing everything on your own. But I think, you know, it's it's sort of everyone, it is a personality thing, I think what it comes down to at the end of the day, but if you have the fortitude, me personally, I like the free agent.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 40:27

If you're working for a direct lender, by definition, you have a product and sometimes your product is the best option for a client. But sometimes, it's not the best option, but still all you have to sell. So it's if you want to sell that idea of that advisory role, it's, I'd imagine that, as a broker, you're positioned maybe a little better for that, because you don't have a horse in the race, you know, per se.

Marvin Jeremias: 41:00

Correct. And again, I think when it breaks down to it, you mentioned when you're a direct lender, you're selling a product, and when you're an advisor, and then that intermediary role, you're almost the product, right? So you're almost selling two different things. Your end result is you're both originating loans, but how you're going about it

Mordecai Rosenberg: 41:29

So as far as personality type, what kind of personality type would you say is better suited for a direct and what is, sort of the pitch is actually very different. When lending origination? People who can't cut it as intermediate? you think about it.

Marvin Jeremias: 41:43

Oh, no, no, absolutely not. It's actually not at all. But I think it's, you know, again, truth is, I've never been on that other end of the aisle , so I can't tell you. I love the lending partners that I work with and we have. I think they're super aggressive, phenomenal, guys. I don't know if it's necessarily a personality type. But it's me, I don't know wrong by saying that. But I don't know if you could break it down per se, because I see some super aggressive people on the origination side. And it's almost probably where you started, right? In this business, I don't think you see a ton of crossover of successful big origination guys who go work for direct lenders, I think you do see, a lot of guys who worked at the direct lending side and have the ability to bring in large amounts of business may move over to the origination side, I think you do see transition that way. I don't know if you see that much transition, the other way of going to work on the neck chaps. But again, it's what works with

Mordecai Rosenberg: 42:47

So as you grew your team, there's a people, some people just accustomed to, like, I'd rather go pitch a brokerage shop and get 50 deals from brokers as opposed to running around to 50 individual borrowers, it's much more of a challenge to do it that way. The flip side is on the original, you know, on the intermediary side, you definitely have to get clients, but you can get 10 deals that you'll be able to place every single one verse as a direct lender, you cannot replace one or two of them, because it only fits into their program. So it's almost a pick your poison as to where you want to be and how you want to originate. But I think they're both sort of equally aggressive. imagine that to be so involved in the middle of every deal is it's very time consuming. So as you grow, do you hire an execution person, at some point who's now charged with getting the deals over the finish line? Are you still staying involved with with every deal?

Marvin Jeremias: 44:00

So that's almost a TBD and a bit of a one of my challenges that I have to figure out. One of the things I pride myself on is really being in the weeds and knowing what's going on every single deal. I hardly ever have a case where a client will call me and say, Where's this up to? Or what's up with that? And I have to say, one second, let me call the analyst and, and see where they are in the process. I'm generally, you know, I would say 99 out of 100 times, I'll know exactly where it's up to on what's going on and sort of live and breathe every single deal. But as you scale, you know, you guess the only commodity we really have is time and you have to allocate it the right way. So, to answer your question, I don't know yet. I tend to think that I would like to be able to stay involved and it takes a lot of brainpower and mental fortitude to do it. But ideally, I think one of the advantage I've always had is, I always know what's happening. And, and I have the answer. And so it's something that, you know, as I scale, and as I grow, it's going to change a little. But ultimately, it's about having the right people on your team, and sort of training them to have the same principles as you do, in terms of servicing clients and making sure they're compensated, you know, the right way that they can sort of have the same attitude and how they represent the bulk of business that you have been the firm's clients. So, it's obviously going to be a learning curve, more involved, but then I want to, I think I always want to be more involved in the next guy. Yeah. So that's sort of going to be a mission for me that I don't ever see myself getting to a point where, you know, I'm sort of at 30,000 feet, and then you don't really know what's happening at the macro level. But that's sort of part of scaling, but it's really about having the right people.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 46:20

I think that makes a lot of sense. I would also think about what are the things that only you can do? When you talk about what your clients pay you for, right? They, they're paying you for your expertise, and for your knowledge of the lenders, and to make sure, and to assure that the deal gets gets done, they're not paying you to call the underwriter and check in on their on the appraisal, right? So there's stuff, you may look at just the different if you made a list of like, all the different tasks that you do over the course of a week, may find that, alright, like 25% or 50% of them, you could maybe have someone else do it, which is not to say that you're not involved. You can still track everything in whatever software system. But that's how that might be one way to approach it is just to think about, like, what are the things that only Marvin Jeremiah's could do? You know, and that you get paid to do.

Marvin Jeremias: 47:32

I tend to think that there is not one thing that only I can do, and everyone can do the same thing. It's just a matter of the focus and I think back to what we said before if there's still that ability for me to impart to the client, that the confidence that the execution is going to be there, then ultimately, that would be the only thing that I would need to do. That is something that I always want to maintain, and something that for me is important to always be there. If that entails, you know, sort of staying in the weeds, then it will be that but that's something that's non negotiable for me that I can't get to a point where somebody will feel I don't know if I can give him a deal, because I don't know. I'm not going to get from him the confidence that it's going to get done. So whatever that needs to happen for that to stay in place. That's definitely something that I will continue to do.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 48:44

That's great. So we just have a few minutes left. But I'm curious, because you're so much in the market. I'm curious about trends that you're seeing on the multifamily side. We're sitting here now, it's March of 2022, kind of towards the end of COVID. But also here, there's inflation and there's the Feds talking about raising rates. Last year, your acquisition activity was was staggering. This year seems to be off to to similar pace, but I'm curious what you're seeing as far as activity on the acquisition side, are people still as bullish? Are they moving from one market to another? Any general trends that you're seeing?

Marvin Jeremias: 49:36

Yes, so acquisitions have not slowed down at all. I haven't seen in terms of, you know, people still being bullish. I don't think there's a number that a seller puts out there that they can sort of reach, there's just an abundance of capital in the market. I see there are people moving into this different markets, they're still the core markets that everyone's been rushing to Florida, parts of the southeast Sunbelt, I mean, there's not a deal that those things, they can't trade fast enough. And there's just, you know, flurry of activity. Every time you start thinking, Well, I don't know, how much lower can these cap rates go? Or, you know, how low can the inplace cash flow be? I mean, there's going to be someone that's going to come in there and take it down. But, it is a bit of an interesting time where the Treasury has been flying all over the place. I mean, it was over 2%, then came bouncing down and now it's sort of, you know, bouncing around 10 basis points today, where deals are getting dicey here. But what I'm seeing is, again, it's like last year was the year of the bridge loan, and it seems to be continuing. I mean, a lot of the deals are still happening on balance sheet floaters. I have been talking, some clients are saying, we may want to put the brakes on that, just because cap costs just went through the roof that, you know, Sofer curve is ridiculous, and it's projected by July to be over 1%. These floaters are not going to be as cheap as people think that they are going in. So some of the, you know, sort of more, I guess, people who are actually looking at trends and are, I don't know, if you want to call them conservative, but somewhat more cautious are starting to say maybe we want to do fixed rate debt. They feel things are creeping up in terms of, again, are we going to be looking at two, three years down the line, where some of these floaters and bridge loans, and the business plan didn't pan out. You may be looking at transitioning, and I think there's enough room in there that the sales may be able to build a lot of people out and that's probably a good thing for the market. But, you know, again, you mentioned inflation, rents are flying. I mean, they're there, I've had clients who did deals where they were projecting to spend $15,000, a unit, and they're hitting their projected rents just on the trade outs without spending $1. So wow, rents are flying, and with inflation going up, rents are going up. I think the people that will do very well, or if you do lock in your fixed rate debt, and your borrowing costs are sort of fixed, your actual operational costs may be going up. But if your rents keep on, you know, trending, even with the rate of inflation, you should be in a good spot, you know, five to seven to 10 years down the road. And your capital event may take a little bit longer to actually hit that capital event where you thought, you know, about a year or two ago, I'll have all you know, the equity out within a year or two, and then refinance out and then pull long term debt. It may be a smarter play, to take a little less leverage, lock up your deal, and sort of guarantee your investor equity. I think we're going to start seeing some of that, you know, over the next couple of months, but, again, you never know, the 10 year Treasury drops another 1015 basis points, everyone will be back to feeling that we're never going back to where the interest rates used to be. I stopped sort of predicting interest rates. When I started in this business, I think we were at like four and a half percent, and we were pitching rates and never been this low and then ever going lower. And every single time you say that, you're wrong. So yeah, who knows. And again, from where I sit, and on our side of the business, activities get up down, as long as it's not stagnant. That's always a positive, you know, definitely want to see, movement helps drive transactions, people want to rock and then when they go down, people want to refinance. So from where we are, and it's just about finding the right solution. But it seems like in terms of purchase activity is get the same level or probably even more aggressive than it was last year. The movement and interest rates is making everyone want to do some type of loan in terms of fixing their existing books. So right now, I mean, everyone I talked to is busier than they've ever been.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 54:30

That's great. Well, hopefully a great time to start your your new company as well as the Crossmark capital. If people want to find you, where can they get in touch with you, sir? A website, email phone number?

Marvin Jeremias: 54:44

Yeah, so my website is, you know, we're building out the landing page. My cell phone is still the same. It's 917-312-0931 and new email address is marvin@crossmarkcapital.com. That's the full domain CROSSMARKcapital.com. So listen, if I'm not sure we're paying referral fees on originations from this podcast, but, if it becomes significant enough, I'll make sure to let you know.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 55:18

That's okay. No, this is just my way just because I enjoy talking to people.

Marvin Jeremias: 55:23

So that was just a little joke.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 55:26

Yeah, it's all good.

Marvin Jeremias: 55:28

But I appreciate the opportunity to spend a couple minutes and discuss some of these things. And it's been a great learning experience for me too. Sometimes you get to learn a little bit about yourself when you have a conversation that this is not the type of everyday conversation that you generally have. So I definitely learned some things about myself and in terms of how I operate and I appreciate it. Thank you for the opportunity.

Mordecai Rosenberg: 55:53

Yeah. Thank you, wishing you a lot of luck. Take care.